Armoured PzGren company numbering

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yantaylor
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by yantaylor » 25 Jun 2021 20:43

Only one Gary, thanks for telling me, but this vehicle would have a number, would it be attached to the company HQ thus have a similar number?

Love your work Gary and as always your help has been great.
Ian

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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by SIS 5 » 26 Jun 2021 07:36

Hi Алексей!

Thank You very much for posting this document.
Yan, here You can find the numbering of the vehicles of the Pz.A.A.
The numbers for the companies of the Pz.A.A. were the same like the Pz.Gren.Kp.

Regards

Bert
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 26 Jun 2021 09:42

Ian, I have been looking at the numbers used on the 12 Stummel in the battalion, 2 in each of the "rifle" companies and the 6 in the Heavy Company. Now they should be vehicles 6 and 7 in the 4th Platoon of each Rifle Company. The first five being the Platoon Commander's vehicle, two Mortar Carriers and an Ammo Carrier plus the MMG vehicle. I was pleased to find a photograph of an HJ Stummel marked 246.

I haven't been able to pin down exactly which Platoon of the Heavy Company the Stummel were however so perhaps someone can tell me.
Alan

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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by yantaylor » 26 Jun 2021 12:22

Hi Alan, trust you are well.

That will help me alot in numbering the 4th company, so we are going great guns here.

Another place where I slipped up is the number of Sd.Kfz 251 in each company as I had two carrying two Pz Schreck teams and two for the MMGs, which is four in total.

Hello Bert, I have downloaded that image, so I can enlarge it and try and convert some of the words to English, by the looks of it, it is a full battalion complete with the various companies, so it will need a little work.
I hope it mentions about the APC with the Pz Schreck teams.

Take care everyone.
Ian

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Алексей
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Алексей » 26 Jun 2021 16:38

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
26 Jun 2021 09:42
I was pleased to find a photograph of an HJ Stummel marked 246.
00000333.jpg
«Grossdeutchland»_25413_original.jpg
But this us "Großdeutchland”.
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SIS 5
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by SIS 5 » 26 Jun 2021 23:04

Hi,

here a pic of a "Stummel" with the number 445.

Regards

Bert
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Last edited by SIS 5 on 27 Jun 2021 09:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Алексей
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Алексей » 27 Jun 2021 07:02

In fact,these are armored personnel carriers(mSPW) from the III(gep.)/SS-PzGrRgt "Germania" of the SS Panzer division "Wiking" in the summer of 1944.
Headquarters:
182257_987.jpg
9 company:
Wiking_115937_127.jpg
10 company:
Wiking,1944_e5dc5d3aa8d6bf71e506beace30.jpg
11 company:
”Wiking”_32644_494.jpg
12 company:
”Wiking”_32949_607.jpg
The companies of this battalion were numbered 9,10,11 and 12,and the armored vehicles were marked with digits "1"," 2", "3" and "4", respectively.Staff vehicles were marked with the Roman digits " III".
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SIS 5
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by SIS 5 » 27 Jun 2021 09:25

Hi Алексей,

thank You for the correction. Then there is also a mistake with the following pic in the book"Panzergrenadiere der Panzergrenadierdivision "Wiking" im Bild" number 331 with the caption "3rd company, 3rd platoon, 1st vehicle).

Regards

Bert
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 Jun 2021 10:41

SIS 5 wrote:
26 Jun 2021 23:04
Hi,

here a pic of a "Stummel" with the number 445.

Regards

Bert
Thanks Bert that makes it 4th Platoon then.
Alan

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Алексей
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Алексей » 27 Jun 2021 11:06

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
26 Jun 2021 09:42
I was pleased to find a photograph of an HJ Stummel marked 246.
“Гитлерюгенд“_184742_270.jpg
SS-PANZERGRENADIER-REGIMENT-RGT-HITLERJUGEND-NOR(3).jpg
32558_569.jpg
32521_041.jpg
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 Jun 2021 11:42

SIS 5 wrote:
27 Jun 2021 09:25
Hi Алексей,

thank You for the correction. Then there is also a mistake with the following pic in the book"Panzergrenadiere der Panzergrenadierdivision "Wiking" im Bild" number 331 with the caption "3rd company, 3rd platoon, 1st vehicle).

Regards

Bert
Bert, of course the caption writer could be referring to the fact that the 11th Company of the Regiment was also the third company of the third battalion with both statements being true. Confusing isn't it ?
Alan

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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 Jun 2021 11:44

Алексей wrote:
27 Jun 2021 11:06
Alanmccoubrey wrote:
26 Jun 2021 09:42
I was pleased to find a photograph of an HJ Stummel marked 246.
“Гитлерюгенд“_184742_270.jpg
SS-PANZERGRENADIER-REGIMENT-RGT-HITLERJUGEND-NOR(3).jpg32558_569.jpg32521_041.jpg

Yes, that's where I found the pic, in the film taken during von Rundstedt's inspection of the Division.
Alan

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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by spannermann » 27 Jun 2021 13:37

Hi,
HJ for this inspection and for Normandy did the same as the Wiking, in that its 9, 10, 11 and 12 Armoured Companies of the III/SSPzGren Rgt 26, were marked on their vehicles as 1xx, 2xx, 3xx and 4xx.

cheers Paul

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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 Jun 2021 16:44

spannermann wrote:
27 Jun 2021 13:37
Hi,
HJ for this inspection and for Normandy did the same as the Wiking, in that its 9, 10, 11 and 12 Armoured Companies of the III/SSPzGren Rgt 26, were marked on their vehicles as 1xx, 2xx, 3xx and 4xx.

cheers Paul
Paul, since it was unusual for any Division to have a "First Battalion" as the armoured battalion this rule applies to most. Of the Panzer Divisions in Normandy for example only 2 PD(with 2 1st Bn) and Lehr(also with 2 first battalions!) having "First Battalions" as armoured and these two cause further problems because only one battalion can use 1XX, etc so what did the other battalions use ? In 2 PD did I./304 use a 2nd Battalion's numbering, 5XX, etc or did it use a four digit system ? In lehr that 901 used the normal 1XX through to 11xx so did 902 use a four digit system ? And if so what did it use on its Regimental Companies ?
Alan

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Re: Armoured PzGren company numbering

Post by yantaylor » 28 Jun 2021 10:52

Just looking at the KStN 1114c (gp) 1.11.1943 and its 13 Panzerschrecks and comparing it to the KStN 1114c (gp) (fG) 1.7.1944, which has none!
What did they do, remove them all and passed them over to the Infantry?

The other difference between both KStN, is the MMGs, the 1114c (gp) has four mounted in two Sd.Kfz 251/17s, the KStN 1114c (gp) (fG) has three but gains a third 251/17.

Ian

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