Did Martin Bormann survive the war?

Mark Costa · Post by **Mark Costa** » 20 Sep 2002 02:36

With all due respect, I have to disagree with the "Hitler's Traitor" book. It is just plain hogwash. The leaks were easily explained as the British and US intelligence had broken all the top secret German codes that went through in suppossedly impregnable Enigma machine. There was nothing mysterious as to how we got the info. We were breaking the codes faster than the German high Command. There have been numerous suggestions that are simply farfetched: the candidates range from "Gestapo" Muller to Hermann Fegelein. Totally ridiculous.

Bormann being a soviet is laughable. I suggest everyone read Jochen Lang's " The Secretary" to get a real good glimpse of Bormann and then get a hold of the Bormann Letters published in the 1950's. Old Martin was a die hard NS and his only interest was accumulating power !! He was the perfect bureaucrat. And he is DEAD. Lang's book will simply dispell and notion of body mixups, coverups and secret Fourth Reich conspiracies. He was there in Berlin the whole time. They were looking for him in that place for years. They couldn't get the exact spot right until the construction workers were laying cables --and lo and behold there they were --just like the Berlin postal workers said they were in 1945 !!! No mystery --- only in the minds of the conspiracy authors who want to sell books.

Mark

Aufklarung · Post by **Aufklarung** » 20 Sep 2002 02:48

Mark
Good book, eh. I read it about 3 months ago and learned more than I ever knew about Bormann. I pulled it down to get the authors name for my last post. I recommend it to anyone who wants the answers about Martin B.

I can't resist this pic of one of his mistress'

Mark Costa · Post by **Mark Costa** » 20 Sep 2002 03:11

Great picture of Manja Behrens .. Got to hand it to old Martin -- His wife allows him to bring the mistress home !!!!! More babies for the Fuhrer. And people say the US morality is messed up ?????

Mark

R-Bob The Great! · Post by **R-Bob The Great!** » 18 Jan 2004 21:13

I just finished reading the book "Armour Battles of the Waffen-SS"which is basically a compilation of battle testimony from Waffen-SS panzertruppen. The one that I foudn interesting is the report by Unterscharfuhrer George Diers, a Panzer Commander in SS PzAbt. 503 in the Battle for Berlin. In his entry for May 1, 1945 he says that he was ordered to the Reichschancellery to receive breakout orders. He states "I then had to go through this building and saw, at an inner yard near the wall, attempts to burn something (the body of Adolf Hitler) by throwing gasoline on it. With every attempt a cloud of smoke rose and the Russians immediately fired with mortar or artillery. Then two mines were put under it and detonated. Goebbels gave me the order: 'Assembly at the Friedrich Street railroad station, Weidenndammer Bridge. Three to five more Panzers may join you to breakout in the direction of Oranienburg.'" He goes on to say that as he was prepariong for the breakouyt attempt "A number of uniformed men reported to me and requested to be taken along. They climbed onto the rear above the engine. We began our breakout at midnight or just before midnight.
A high ranking officer joined us. HJis insignia could not be made out since he wore an overcoat. He was obviously respected by those around and asked to be taken along. He, too, climbed onto the rear."

His Konistiger received heavy fire from infantry and artillery coming from ZIegel Street and he says everything outsidfe was shot off (track covers, tow cables, etc. His driver drove high speed onto the bridge and opend the commanders hatch and a an Unterstrumfuhrer appeared at the side. "He stated he was the driver and second adjundtant tof Goebbels. He knew his way around the Berlin streets. He told me that he had jumped on to the track cover on the left when the Panzer had started out and had held on to the turret since he knew that there was fairly violent firing at Ziegel Street. To the question as to what had ahppeend to the people on the rear, he said they had been ripped apart. There were only pieces of cloth and flesh left... He was well informed and told me that hte last ont o join us was Martin Bormann.

Has anyone else read this account? I recently watched a specil on History where they said they only found his body a few years ago and presumed he had dioed in the breakout so that is why I thought it was interesting. Was his body found in the area near the bridge? And I didnt know that they blew up Hitler's body with a mine. Does anyoen else find this interesting?[/b]

Ike_FI · Post by **Ike_FI** » 18 Jan 2004 21:59

There's a map of his escape route and couple of 90's photos from the same locations at

http://www.anesi.com/east/bormann.htm

Vesper · Post by **Vesper** » 18 Jan 2004 22:00

All the books I have read state that Bormann disappeared but was most certainly killed during the fighting in Berlin so I find this very interesting indeed.

R-Bob The Great! · Post by **R-Bob The Great!** » 18 Jan 2004 22:04

The map shows that he got very much farther than the narrative suggests.

Locke · Post by **Locke** » 18 Jan 2004 22:13

Martin Bormann died in Berlin, 1945. DNA tests have been made, so it's official.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ann#325244

Regards,
Polona

R-Bob The Great! · Post by **R-Bob The Great!** » 19 Jan 2004 00:50

Is the account in Armour Battles of the Waffen-SS generally accepted as truth?

R-Bob The Great! · Post by **R-Bob The Great!** » 19 Jan 2004 00:50

Is the account in Armour Battles of the Waffen-SS accpeted as truth? Is it widely known?

Juha Hujanen · Post by **Juha Hujanen** » 19 Jan 2004 11:50

This pic can be found in Erich Kempka's book Ich Habe Adolf Hitler Verbrannt (mine copy is Finnish translatition).

It's Kempka's recollection of place of Bormann's death.Spots 5 and 6 marked with x are places of Nauman (5) and Bormann (6) after the tank was hit.

According to Kempka commander of first panzer was SS-Obersturmführer Hansen.Bormann and Naumann were left of tank,close the turret and Stumpfegger and kempka a little behind of them.They walked.When tank was hit,Bormann and naumann were thrown on the left to street and Kempka was sure that he died on the spot.

Cheers/Juha

Ike_FI · Post by **Ike_FI** » 19 Jan 2004 14:01

Juha Hujanen wrote:According to Kempka commander of first panzer was SS-Obersturmführer Hansen.Bormann and Naumann were left of tank,close the turret and Stumpfegger and kempka a little behind of them.They walked.When tank was hit,Bormann and naumann were thrown on the left to street and Kempka was sure that he died on the spot.

Cheers/Juha

Different story versions seem to agree that Bormann continued with the tanks until the bridge, where the tanks became under fire. Then we have Kempka's version that Bormann died instantly, and that of Axmann, that he was injured but still able to continue some distance towards west, where he soon died. The bodies were finally found roughly about where Axmann's story suggested them to have been.

The wild and imaginative stories about Bormann continued even after the discovery in 1972 of two skeletons near the Lehrter railway station in Berlin. The authorities said the men were probably Bormann and Ludwig Stumpfegger, one of Hitler's doctors. Splinters of glass cyanide capsules were found in the jawbones.

It is believed they escaped from Hitler's bunker, were trapped by crossfire and killed themselves.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/87651.stm

Petterson · Post by **Petterson** » 24 Mar 2004 16:53

A newspaper in Paraguay reported in 1993 that Martin Bormann had lived in that country for three years, had died in Asuncion on February 15, 1959, and was buried in a nearby town. A cause of death was a gastric cancer.

Is this theory believable?

Interesting that Bormann would had ailment in his stomach. Did Himmler had also stomach cramps? And Hitler. According to David Irving they had so called guilt cramps.

Orok · Post by **Orok** » 24 Mar 2004 17:57

I won't trust either some Paraguay tabloid or David Irving. Besides, this topic has been discussed god knows how many times in this forum. Please kindly do a forum research to find your answer.

Best Regards!

Michael Miller · Post by **Michael Miller** » 24 Mar 2004 20:15

I think the case on Bormann has been closed thanks to DNA testing. Here's what I have:

* The Amtsgericht in Berchtesgaden declared Bormann legally dead on 10.03.1954, but he was long reputed to have escaped from Berlin to embark on a new life in South America. One of two skeletons unearthed in the Ulap Fairgrounds near the Reichstag building in West Berlin on 07./08.12.1972, was determined by a West German forensic expert using dental records to almost certainly be his. He was officially pronounced dead by a West German court in 04.1973. In 1998, however, a DNA examination was conducted by Wolfgang Eisenmenger, Professor of Forensic Science at München University working on behalf of the Justice Ministry in Frankfurt am Main. Using Bormann’s dental, medical, and fingerprint records, as well as blood from Bormann’s children for the DNA match, Eisenmenger was able to conclude that the skeleton was in fact that of Martin Bormann. He further determined the cause of death to be self inflicted poisoning. The other skeleton found was determined to be that of Hitler’s doctor, SS-Obersturmbannführer Dr. med. Ludwig Stumpfegger. Bormann’s remains were cremated and scattered over the Baltic Sea on 16.08.1999.

Best wishes,
~ Mike

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