Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
ljadw
Member
Posts: 13450
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 20:11

George L Gregory wrote:
02 May 2022 16:22
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 13:35
If speaking a language means belonging to an ethnic group,it is obvious that two people who speak the same language belong to the same group .
That is NOT what anyone on this thread has ever claimed means belonging to an ethnic group.

You should think before you post.

Are you losing your mind since you are in your early 70s now?
Speaking a language is belonging to an ethnic group ( YOUR post 111 )

DavidFrankenberg
Member
Posts: 1182
Joined: 11 May 2016 01:09
Location: Earth

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 02 May 2022 20:26

ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 19:31
Marx was an anti-Semite as was Trotzky .
Another strange claim.

DavidFrankenberg
Member
Posts: 1182
Joined: 11 May 2016 01:09
Location: Earth

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 02 May 2022 20:27

ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:11
George L Gregory wrote:
02 May 2022 16:22
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 13:35
If speaking a language means belonging to an ethnic group,it is obvious that two people who speak the same language belong to the same group .
That is NOT what anyone on this thread has ever claimed means belonging to an ethnic group.

You should think before you post.

Are you losing your mind since you are in your early 70s now?
Speaking a language is belonging to an ethnic group ( YOUR post 111 )
Indeed, most people speaks the language of their ethnic group. Dont you ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13450
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 20:53

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 14:43
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 06:58
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .
Nationality is not ethnicity.
Hitler was born with austrian nationality, but he was an ethnic german.
Was there something as an Austrian nationality in 1889,more precisely : were there Identity Cards ans passports mentioning that X was an Austrian ?
And why was Hitler an ethnic German ? If it was because he spoke German, than you must admit that everyone in Cisleithania who spoke German, including the Jews from Galicia, were ethnic Germans .If it was because of his ancestors,than one must prove that they were ethnic Germans .
If Hitler's passport/IC listed him as Austrian, how were the Czech listed, the inhabitants of Krakow,the Jews of Galicia ?

A big part of the ''ethnic '' Germans in Cisleithania and today's Austria was the offspring of mixed marriages between German and non German speaking people .
400000 Polish Germans emigrated to the Ruhr, some were assimilated very fast, others only 100 years later : how to classify them ?
How were listed the 40 Slavic % of the population of Vienna ?

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 1048
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 02 May 2022 21:27

ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:11
George L Gregory wrote:
02 May 2022 16:22
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 13:35
If speaking a language means belonging to an ethnic group,it is obvious that two people who speak the same language belong to the same group .
That is NOT what anyone on this thread has ever claimed means belonging to an ethnic group.

You should think before you post.

Are you losing your mind since you are in your early 70s now?
Speaking a language is belonging to an ethnic group ( YOUR post 111 )
In that post I specifically clarified that speaking a language does NOT mean one belongs to an ethnic group.

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 1048
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 02 May 2022 21:31

ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 19:31
Marx was an anti-Semite as was Trotzky .
And that Marx was ethnically Jewish, is wrong : his parents had broken all ties with the Jewish world and had become protestant .
The father of Barry Goldwater was ''Jewish '' ,his mother wasn't and his father converted to the Presbytarian religion of his mother .
Other point :Halakha does not decide who is Jewish,but every one who is called Jewish,decides independently from the Jewish laws if he considers himself as Jewish.
Besides, what you ignore,certain tendencies in the Jewish world are saying that it is the Jewish father, not mother, who decides that his children are Jewish .
Gentiles and Jewish laws do not determine who is Jewish .Most American ''Jews "" do not consider themselves as Jewish and have married non Jews .
It is very doubtful that Kissinger considered himself as a Jew : he was a Jewish American .
You seem a bit confused.

Marx was 100% ethnically Jewish both maternally and paternally. Many of his ancestors were Rabbis.

You have it all back to front. One doesn’t have a say about his or her ethnicity.

The sooner you start to grasp the definition of ‘ethnicity’ then the easier it will be for you to comprehend this very basic definition of a well known term.

I know about Marx’s work that has been interpreted as being anti-Semitic, but I’m unaware of Leon Trotsky’s alleged anti-Semitism.

Just for the record, Trotsky was also ethnically Jewish.

Halakha determines who is and who is not a Jew. An individual has no say in the matter. A child born to a Jewish mother will forever be considered a Jew.

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 1048
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 02 May 2022 21:34

ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:53
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 14:43
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 06:58
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .
Nationality is not ethnicity.
Hitler was born with austrian nationality, but he was an ethnic german.
Was there something as an Austrian nationality in 1889,more precisely : were there Identity Cards ans passports mentioning that X was an Austrian ?
And why was Hitler an ethnic German ? If it was because he spoke German, than you must admit that everyone in Cisleithania who spoke German, including the Jews from Galicia, were ethnic Germans .If it was because of his ancestors,than one must prove that they were ethnic Germans .
If Hitler's passport/IC listed him as Austrian, how were the Czech listed, the inhabitants of Krakow,the Jews of Galicia ?

A big part of the ''ethnic '' Germans in Cisleithania and today's Austria was the offspring of mixed marriages between German and non German speaking people .
400000 Polish Germans emigrated to the Ruhr, some were assimilated very fast, others only 100 years later : how to classify them ?
How were listed the 40 Slavic % of the population of Vienna ?
You’re back to posting the same piffle as before.

Hitler was an ethnic German because like the vast majority of Austrians back in his heyday he was a German-speaking Austrian who identified himself as belonging to the German nation. Austrians in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire were classified as ethnic Germans. Why? Because Austrians back then considered themselves to be Germans and were viewed as just being another type of German like Bavarians and Prussians.

Joseph Stalin was an ethnic Georgian even though he learnt Russian, but he was never an ethnic Russian.

How much clearer does someone need to make this to you?

The Czech Republic didn’t exist back then so according to you Czechs didn’t exist so no “Austrians” could have had Czech ancestry. Also, you still never tell me the term you refer to for the inhabitants of Austria in Austria-Hungary who spoke German and identified with German culture. Why is that? I know why… because your arguments are a load of nonsense.

DavidFrankenberg
Member
Posts: 1182
Joined: 11 May 2016 01:09
Location: Earth

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 02 May 2022 21:55

ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:53
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 14:43
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 06:58
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .
Nationality is not ethnicity.
Hitler was born with austrian nationality, but he was an ethnic german.
Was there something as an Austrian nationality in 1889,more precisely : were there Identity Cards ans passports mentioning that X was an Austrian ?
And why was Hitler an ethnic German ? If it was because he spoke German, than you must admit that everyone in Cisleithania who spoke German, including the Jews from Galicia, were ethnic Germans .If it was because of his ancestors,than one must prove that they were ethnic Germans .
If Hitler's passport/IC listed him as Austrian, how were the Czech listed, the inhabitants of Krakow,the Jews of Galicia ?

A big part of the ''ethnic '' Germans in Cisleithania and today's Austria was the offspring of mixed marriages between German and non German speaking people .
400000 Polish Germans emigrated to the Ruhr, some were assimilated very fast, others only 100 years later : how to classify them ?
How were listed the 40 Slavic % of the population of Vienna ?
Hitler was an ethnic german because his father and his mother were.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13450
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 03 May 2022 07:23

George L Gregory wrote:
02 May 2022 21:34
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:53
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 14:43
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 06:58
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .
Nationality is not ethnicity.
Hitler was born with austrian nationality, but he was an ethnic german.
Was there something as an Austrian nationality in 1889,more precisely : were there Identity Cards ans passports mentioning that X was an Austrian ?
And why was Hitler an ethnic German ? If it was because he spoke German, than you must admit that everyone in Cisleithania who spoke German, including the Jews from Galicia, were ethnic Germans .If it was because of his ancestors,than one must prove that they were ethnic Germans .
If Hitler's passport/IC listed him as Austrian, how were the Czech listed, the inhabitants of Krakow,the Jews of Galicia ?

A big part of the ''ethnic '' Germans in Cisleithania and today's Austria was the offspring of mixed marriages between German and non German speaking people .
400000 Polish Germans emigrated to the Ruhr, some were assimilated very fast, others only 100 years later : how to classify them ?
How were listed the 40 Slavic % of the population of Vienna ?
You’re back to posting the same piffle as before.

Hitler was an ethnic German because like the vast majority of Austrians back in his heyday he was a German-speaking Austrian who identified himself as belonging to the German nation. Austrians in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire were classified as ethnic Germans. Why? Because Austrians back then considered themselves to be Germans and were viewed as just being another type of German like Bavarians and Prussians.

Joseph Stalin was an ethnic Georgian even though he learnt Russian, but he was never an ethnic Russian.

How much clearer does someone need to make this to you?

The Czech Republic didn’t exist back then so according to you Czechs didn’t exist so no “Austrians” could have had Czech ancestry. Also, you still never tell me the term you refer to for the inhabitants of Austria in Austria-Hungary who spoke German and identified with German culture. Why is that? I know why… because your arguments are a load of nonsense.
I see that you still have NO proofs for your claim that German speaking Austrians did identify themselves as belonging to the German nation and also for your claim that Austrians in the A-H Empire were classified ( by whom ? by German nationalists ? ) ethnic Germans .
Have you proofs that the word ''ethnicity '' was used before 1914 to classify people ?
And why should I use a term for the inhabitants of present Austria in AH who ''spoke '' German ( native or colloquial language ? ) and who ,following you,identified with German culture ? The only relevant thing is how they called themselves ,how they considered themselves .
As a big part of the population of present Austria in 1914 had Slavic origins or were Slavs (and it is not much different today ) ,why should I believe your claim ,without proof, that they identified themselves with the German culture ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13450
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 03 May 2022 07:28

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 21:55
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:53
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 14:43
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 06:58
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .
Nationality is not ethnicity.
Hitler was born with austrian nationality, but he was an ethnic german.
Was there something as an Austrian nationality in 1889,more precisely : were there Identity Cards ans passports mentioning that X was an Austrian ?
And why was Hitler an ethnic German ? If it was because he spoke German, than you must admit that everyone in Cisleithania who spoke German, including the Jews from Galicia, were ethnic Germans .If it was because of his ancestors,than one must prove that they were ethnic Germans .
If Hitler's passport/IC listed him as Austrian, how were the Czech listed, the inhabitants of Krakow,the Jews of Galicia ?

A big part of the ''ethnic '' Germans in Cisleithania and today's Austria was the offspring of mixed marriages between German and non German speaking people .
400000 Polish Germans emigrated to the Ruhr, some were assimilated very fast, others only 100 years later : how to classify them ?
How were listed the 40 Slavic % of the population of Vienna ?
Hitler was an ethnic german because his father and his mother were.
Is there any proof that Alois Hitler was an ethnic German ? The father of Alois Hitler is still unknown .

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13450
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 03 May 2022 07:37

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 21:55
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 20:53
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
02 May 2022 14:43
ljadw wrote:
02 May 2022 06:58
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .
Nationality is not ethnicity.
Hitler was born with austrian nationality, but he was an ethnic german.
Was there something as an Austrian nationality in 1889,more precisely : were there Identity Cards ans passports mentioning that X was an Austrian ?
And why was Hitler an ethnic German ? If it was because he spoke German, than you must admit that everyone in Cisleithania who spoke German, including the Jews from Galicia, were ethnic Germans .If it was because of his ancestors,than one must prove that they were ethnic Germans .
If Hitler's passport/IC listed him as Austrian, how were the Czech listed, the inhabitants of Krakow,the Jews of Galicia ?

A big part of the ''ethnic '' Germans in Cisleithania and today's Austria was the offspring of mixed marriages between German and non German speaking people .
400000 Polish Germans emigrated to the Ruhr, some were assimilated very fast, others only 100 years later : how to classify them ?
How were listed the 40 Slavic % of the population of Vienna ?
Hitler was an ethnic german because his father and his mother were.
The word ''ethnic group '' was used for the first time in 1935,that means that one can not use this word for people living before 1935 .
The father of Hitler died in 1903,thus one can not use a word to classify him that did not exist in 1903 .
You can't use the word democracy for what happened in the Middle Ages,it is the same for ethnic .
Unless you can quote Alois Hitler saying that he was an ethnic German .

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 1048
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 03 May 2022 15:48

ljadw wrote:
03 May 2022 07:23
I see that you still have NO proofs for your claim that German speaking Austrians did identify themselves as belonging to the German nation and also for your claim that Austrians in the A-H Empire were classified ( by whom ? by German nationalists ? ) ethnic Germans .
Have you proofs that the word ''ethnicity '' was used before 1914 to classify people ?
And why should I use a term for the inhabitants of present Austria in AH who ''spoke '' German ( native or colloquial language ? ) and who ,following you,identified with German culture ? The only relevant thing is how they called themselves ,how they considered themselves .
As a big part of the population of present Austria in 1914 had Slavic origins or were Slavs (and it is not much different today ) ,why should I believe your claim ,without proof, that they identified themselves with the German culture ?
Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over again?

You have contradicted yourself plenty of times.

You have made-up lies about me and deliberately misconstrued my posts.

You now go back to my first statement and just post a wall of text of the same thing relentlessly.

George L Gregory
Member
Posts: 1048
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 03 May 2022 15:49

ljadw wrote:
03 May 2022 07:37
The word ''ethnic group '' was used for the first time in 1935,that means that one can not use this word for people living before 1935 .
The father of Hitler died in 1903,thus one can not use a word to classify him that did not exist in 1903 .
You can't use the word democracy for what happened in the Middle Ages,it is the same for ethnic .
Unless you can quote Alois Hitler saying that he was an ethnic German .
This is exactly why it’s so obvious you’re just trying to wind people up.

I didn’t think that one could be this stupid.

DavidFrankenberg
Member
Posts: 1182
Joined: 11 May 2016 01:09
Location: Earth

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 03 May 2022 18:20

ljadw wrote:
03 May 2022 07:37
The word ''ethnic group '' was used for the first time in 1935,that means that one can not use this word for people living before 1935 .
The father of Hitler died in 1903,thus one can not use a word to classify him that did not exist in 1903 .
You can't use the word democracy for what happened in the Middle Ages,it is the same for ethnic .
Unless you can quote Alois Hitler saying that he was an ethnic German .
You mean that Hitler was an ethnic german in 1935, but he was not in 1934 ?
Happily i am not so narrow minded.

At least, you finally recognize it : Hitler was an ethnic german... since 1935 :lol:

DavidFrankenberg
Member
Posts: 1182
Joined: 11 May 2016 01:09
Location: Earth

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 03 May 2022 18:25

ljadw wrote:
03 May 2022 07:28
Is there any proof that Alois Hitler was an ethnic German ? The father of Alois Hitler is still unknown .
I dont know a serious author pretending that Hitler was not of german blood. Do you ?

Return to “Propaganda, Culture & Architecture”