Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 01 May 2022 18:36

ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 16:50
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
28 Apr 2022 23:15

ljadw wrote:
28 Apr 2022 20:55
.
Yes. Belgium is divided between french people in Wallonie and germanic/hollandese people in Flanders.

I advise you very strongly never to tell such things in Wallonia and Flanders .
You know what they did in the Far West with people who said things that chocked the inhabitants :pitch and feathers is not pleasant .
Wallonie is inhabited by french people, Flanders by germanic people.

Your advise, pitch and feathers or Far West wont change it.

ljadw
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Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 01 May 2022 18:49

There was no Austrian state prior 1918,thus there was no Austrian people before 1918 . It is as simple as that .
There is no such thing as ethnic Germans : Boris Johnson has no English ethnicity : his forefathers were Jewish, German, French, Osman ,etc .. but that does not prevent him to be accepted as the PM of Britain .
The ethnicity of Bonaparte was Italian, but he was French Emperor, the German ethnicity of Hitler is very dubious,but that did not prevent him to be the dictator of Germany .
I have already given the example of Madeleine Albright who spoke Czech and had a Czech culture but was not an ethnic Czech.The same for Kissinger who was not an ethnic German .
There is no such thing as ethnicity, ethnicity is only a politically correct word for race .
YOU are claiming that after 1866 German speaking inhabitants of Cisleithania ,were ethnic Germans , but you can,t answer the question why til 1918 these ethnic Germans refused to be a part of a German state and preferred to remain citizens of a supranational state .
Speaking German and ''having a German culture '' (haha ) does not make you a German .
The German speaking citizens of Switzerland who have a German culture are NOT ethnic Germans, they would feel insulted if you would call them ethnic Germans .
The French speaking inhabitants of Wallonia are NOT ethnic French, the Dutch speaking inhabitants of Flanders are not ethnic Dutch,the German speaking inhabitants of South Tirol are not ethnic Germans .
The coach of FC Anderlecht, Vincent Kompany, speaks Dutch, French, English , but this does not make him ethnic French, Dutch or British .

ljadw
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Posts: 13527
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Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 01 May 2022 18:51

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
01 May 2022 18:36
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 16:50
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
28 Apr 2022 23:15

ljadw wrote:
28 Apr 2022 20:55
.
Yes. Belgium is divided between french people in Wallonie and germanic/hollandese people in Flanders.

I advise you very strongly never to tell such things in Wallonia and Flanders .
You know what they did in the Far West with people who said things that chocked the inhabitants :pitch and feathers is not pleasant .
Wallonie is inhabited by french people, Flanders by germanic people.

Your advise, pitch and feathers or Far West wont change it.
I am a Belgian citizen and I know that this is nonsense .No one in Flanders considers himself as germanic, no one in Wallonia considers himself as french .

ljadw
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Posts: 13527
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 01 May 2022 19:06

George L Gregory wrote:
01 May 2022 14:08
ljadw wrote:
30 Apr 2022 15:37
George L Gregory wrote:
30 Apr 2022 12:34
ljadw wrote:
28 Apr 2022 17:32
Hm , Dutch was not a West-German dialect in 1908 .
What was the Dutch language classified as in 1908?
As an independent language ,which was not a German dialect .
No one said it was a German dialect.

Dutch has always been classified as Germanic language.
The map on P 12 has as title : Map of the continental West-Germanic dialect continuum.
And the map mentions as dialects Niederfränkisch, Brandenburgisch, etc ...
And when Germans classified Dutch as a Germanic language,they are wrong and what they say is irrelevant, as only Dutch and Flemish linguists can give their opinion about the Dutch language . Not foreigners with dubious aims .

ljadw
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Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 01 May 2022 19:14

George L Gregory wrote:
01 May 2022 16:40
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 15:41
What Franz Joseph said during WW 1 is irrelevant, or do you think that during WW1,he would have said : I am not a German Prince . Reality is that Franz Joseph was the ''ruler '' (with limited power ) of a state with a population that was in majority non German .
And about the Bavarians : what they wish today ( and it is not secession from Germany ) is irrelevant for what they wished 100 years ago : in 1923 von Kahr and his allies planned a coup with as motto :Loss von Berlin,this coup failed because Hitler started an other coup with as motto : Nach Berlin .
In 1866 the Bavarians refused a unified German state and fought on the side of Austria ,as did the Hanoverians . They became a part of the wrongly called German Empire in 1871 only because there was no alternative :they could not become a part of the empire of the Habsburgers and they could not survive on their own,independently from the new German state .They followed the maxim of ,was it McMillan? ,who said : if you can't beat them, join them .
About Mozart : there were in 1806 1800 independent ''German states '',thus what he said about his German fatherland was about something that did not exist .He lived in the archdiocese of Salzburg,one of the 1800 members of the Holy Roman Empire .
About Grillparzer : when he was born in 1791, there was no such thing as a German state.
And, about Bavaria : while outside Bavaria ( and Baden ) every year the Sedantag ( 2 September ) was celebrated enthusiastically, there was not much enthusiasm in Bavaria on 2 September .
This is an indication that a big part of the Bavarian population accepted the unification unwillingly .
You said that Austrians didn’t consider themselves to be Germans prior to 1918 and I gave you three examples of Austrians evidently considering themselves to be Germans prior to 1918 and the best you could do was go on a long tirade of piffle.

Pathetic.
You did not give three examples of Austrians considering themselves as Germans prior 1918
Mozart was not an Austrian
Grillparzer claimed to be German, but refused to become German citizen and to live in a German state .
Franz Jozeph was not Austrian, but Austrian, Hungarian, Czech, etc, etc and what he said during the wear was only propaganda . He did not say it before the war .

George L Gregory
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Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 01 May 2022 19:28

ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:49
There was no Austrian state prior 1918,thus there was no Austrian people before 1918 . It is as simple as that .
No it’s not as simple as that. Ethnicity and citizenship are two different things.

Austrians have existed for hundreds of years and like Bavarians, Prussians and others, were considered to be a part of the Germans.
There is no such thing as ethnic Germans :
Of course there is such a thing.
Boris Johnson has no English ethnicity : his forefathers were Jewish, German, French, Osman ,etc .. but that does not prevent him to be accepted as the PM of Britain .
No one has ever claimed Boris Johnson to be of just English ethnicity.
The ethnicity of Bonaparte was Italian, but he was French Emperor, the German ethnicity of Hitler is very dubious,but that did not prevent him to be the dictator of Germany .
I have already given the example of Madeleine Albright who spoke Czech and had a Czech culture but was not an ethnic Czech.The same for Kissinger who was not an ethnic German .
Eh? I thought that you didn’t think ethnicity existed. How dare you assume Bonaparte’s ‘ethnicity’!!!

Bonaparte was an ethnically Italian and Hitler was ethnically German.

Madeleine Albright was ethnically Jewish.

You are always contradicting yourself.
There is no such thing as ethnicity, ethnicity is only a politically correct word for race .
Back to basic 101:
An ethnic group or an ethnicity is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, culture, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area. Ethnicity is sometimes used interchangeably with the term nation, particularly in cases of ethnic nationalism, and is separate from the related concept of races.
YOU are claiming that after 1866 German speaking inhabitants of Cisleithania ,were ethnic Germans , but you can,t answer the question why til 1918 these ethnic Germans refused to be a part of a German state and preferred to remain citizens of a supranational state .
Speaking German and ''having a German culture '' (haha ) does not make you a German .
The Austrians lost the war that ultimately unified Germany and therefore had no role to play in German affairs.

How many times do I need to keep posting that basic historical fact for you to understand it?

Someone is ethnically German if his or her ancestors were ethnic Germans i.e. They were/are German-speakers and belong to German culture.
The German speaking citizens of Switzerland who have a German culture are NOT ethnic Germans, they would feel insulted if you would call them ethnic Germans .
The French speaking inhabitants of Wallonia are NOT ethnic French, the Dutch speaking inhabitants of Flanders are not ethnic Dutch,the German speaking inhabitants of South Tirol are not ethnic Germans .
Well according to you there’s no such thing as ethnicity, so how do you know all of this?

Anyway, 65% of Swiss identify as ethnic Germans.

From Information about Switzerland, Also known as Confoederatio Helvetica (therefore the abbreviation CH):

https://www.about.ch/statistics/index.html
The coach of FC Anderlecht, Vincent Kompany, speaks Dutch, French, English , but this does not make him ethnic French, Dutch or British .
Because his ancestors are not from those countries.

Speaking a language =/= Belonging to an ethnic group

George L Gregory
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Posts: 1048
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Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 01 May 2022 19:30

ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:51
I am a Belgian citizen and I know that this is nonsense .No one in Flanders considers himself as germanic, no one in Wallonia considers himself as french .
How the heck do you know what other people think?

How about you just speak for yourself? By god, you sure as hell seem to think that you know more than you actually do.

The Flanders are Germanic, so why wouldn’t they consider themselves to be what they are? :?

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 01 May 2022 19:43

ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:51
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
01 May 2022 18:36
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 16:50
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
28 Apr 2022 23:15

ljadw wrote:
28 Apr 2022 20:55
.
Yes. Belgium is divided between french people in Wallonie and germanic/hollandese people in Flanders.

I advise you very strongly never to tell such things in Wallonia and Flanders .
You know what they did in the Far West with people who said things that chocked the inhabitants :pitch and feathers is not pleasant .
Wallonie is inhabited by french people, Flanders by germanic people.

Your advise, pitch and feathers or Far West wont change it.
I am a Belgian citizen and I know that this is nonsense .No one in Flanders considers himself as germanic, no one in Wallonia considers himself as french .
Sure, they do.

George L Gregory
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Posts: 1048
Joined: 13 Nov 2020 15:08
Location: Britain

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by George L Gregory » 01 May 2022 20:16

ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:49
There was no Austrian state prior 1918,thus there was no Austrian people before 1918 . It is as simple as that .
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments you have ever posted on this forum. A part of me wants to think that you’re not so stupid and that you’re just trying to wind people up.

Germany became a country in 1871. Did Germans not exist prior to that year?

Czech Republic became a country in 1993. Did Czechs not exist prior to that year?

Ukraine became a country in 1991. Did Ukrainians not exist prior to that year?

France became a country in 1792. Did French not exist prior to that year?

You post total BS.

Ecam
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Posts: 93
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Location: Canada

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by Ecam » 02 May 2022 04:54

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments you have ever posted on this forum. A part of me wants to think that you’re not so stupid and that you’re just trying to wind people up.

You post total BS.
George, I think you’re talking to yourself about yourself again.

ljadw
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Posts: 13527
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 06:37

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
01 May 2022 19:43
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:51
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
01 May 2022 18:36
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 16:50
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
28 Apr 2022 23:15




Yes. Belgium is divided between french people in Wallonie and germanic/hollandese people in Flanders.

I advise you very strongly never to tell such things in Wallonia and Flanders .
You know what they did in the Far West with people who said things that chocked the inhabitants :pitch and feathers is not pleasant .
Wallonie is inhabited by french people, Flanders by germanic people.

Your advise, pitch and feathers or Far West wont change it.
I am a Belgian citizen and I know that this is nonsense .No one in Flanders considers himself as germanic, no one in Wallonia considers himself as french .
Sure, they do.
Proof ?

ljadw
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Posts: 13527
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 06:45

George L Gregory wrote:
01 May 2022 20:16
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:49
There was no Austrian state prior 1918,thus there was no Austrian people before 1918 . It is as simple as that .
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments you have ever posted on this forum. A part of me wants to think that you’re not so stupid and that you’re just trying to wind people up.

Germany became a country in 1871. Did Germans not exist prior to that year?

Czech Republic became a country in 1993. Did Czechs not exist prior to that year?

Ukraine became a country in 1991. Did Ukrainians not exist prior to that year?

France became a country in 1792. Did French not exist prior to that year?

You post total BS.
Did ''Germans '' consider themselves as Germans prior 1871 ?
Did Ukrainians consider themselves as Ukrainians before 1991 ? During WW 2 more Ukrainians fought for Stalin than for the OUN .
Did Czechs consider themselves as Czechs before 1919 ? FYI : there was a Czech state between 1918 and 1939,disguised as Czechoslovakia.
And France did not become a country in 1792 but before 1792 .
And, if there was an Austrian nation before 1918, why was there no Austrian state before 1918 ?

ljadw
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Posts: 13527
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 06:47

George L Gregory wrote:
01 May 2022 19:30
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:51
I am a Belgian citizen and I know that this is nonsense .No one in Flanders considers himself as germanic, no one in Wallonia considers himself as french .
How the heck do you know what other people think?

How about you just speak for yourself? By god, you sure as hell seem to think that you know more than you actually do.

The Flanders are Germanic, so why wouldn’t they consider themselves to be what they are? :?
How do you know that the Flemish people are Germanic ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13527
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 06:58

George L Gregory wrote:
01 May 2022 19:28
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:49
There was no Austrian state prior 1918,thus there was no Austrian people before 1918 . It is as simple as that .
No it’s not as simple as that. Ethnicity and citizenship are two different things.

Austrians have existed for hundreds of years and like Bavarians, Prussians and others, were considered to be a part of the Germans.
There is no such thing as ethnic Germans :
Of course there is such a thing.
Boris Johnson has no English ethnicity : his forefathers were Jewish, German, French, Osman ,etc .. but that does not prevent him to be accepted as the PM of Britain .
No one has ever claimed Boris Johnson to be of just English ethnicity.
The ethnicity of Bonaparte was Italian, but he was French Emperor, the German ethnicity of Hitler is very dubious,but that did not prevent him to be the dictator of Germany .
I have already given the example of Madeleine Albright who spoke Czech and had a Czech culture but was not an ethnic Czech.The same for Kissinger who was not an ethnic German .
Eh? I thought that you didn’t think ethnicity existed. How dare you assume Bonaparte’s ‘ethnicity’!!!

Bonaparte was an ethnically Italian and Hitler was ethnically German.

Madeleine Albright was ethnically Jewish.

You are always contradicting yourself.
There is no such thing as ethnicity, ethnicity is only a politically correct word for race .
Back to basic 101:
An ethnic group or an ethnicity is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, culture, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area. Ethnicity is sometimes used interchangeably with the term nation, particularly in cases of ethnic nationalism, and is separate from the related concept of races.
YOU are claiming that after 1866 German speaking inhabitants of Cisleithania ,were ethnic Germans , but you can,t answer the question why til 1918 these ethnic Germans refused to be a part of a German state and preferred to remain citizens of a supranational state .
Speaking German and ''having a German culture '' (haha ) does not make you a German .
The Austrians lost the war that ultimately unified Germany and therefore had no role to play in German affairs.

How many times do I need to keep posting that basic historical fact for you to understand it?

Someone is ethnically German if his or her ancestors were ethnic Germans i.e. They were/are German-speakers and belong to German culture.
The German speaking citizens of Switzerland who have a German culture are NOT ethnic Germans, they would feel insulted if you would call them ethnic Germans .
The French speaking inhabitants of Wallonia are NOT ethnic French, the Dutch speaking inhabitants of Flanders are not ethnic Dutch,the German speaking inhabitants of South Tirol are not ethnic Germans .
Well according to you there’s no such thing as ethnicity, so how do you know all of this?

Anyway, 65% of Swiss identify as ethnic Germans.

From Information about Switzerland, Also known as Confoederatio Helvetica (therefore the abbreviation CH):

https://www.about.ch/statistics/index.html
The coach of FC Anderlecht, Vincent Kompany, speaks Dutch, French, English , but this does not make him ethnic French, Dutch or British .
Because his ancestors are not from those countries.

Speaking a language =/= Belonging to an ethnic group
There are no ethnic Jews : only people who consider themselves as Jews are Jews . Foreigners can not decide what you are, neither can your ancestors .
Speaking a language does not make you a member of an ''ethnic '' group .90 % of the Irish speak only English, but they do not belong to the same group of the inhabitants of Liverpool .
The parents of Schwarzenegger were Austrian citizens, but Arnold is an American .
And you have no proof that Albright is Jewish : only Albright herself could decide what she was .

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13527
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: Why did the Nazis claim that Adolf Hitler was German?

Post by ljadw » 02 May 2022 07:09

George L Gregory wrote:
01 May 2022 19:28
ljadw wrote:
01 May 2022 18:49
There was no Austrian state prior 1918,thus there was no Austrian people before 1918 . It is as simple as that .
No it’s not as simple as that. Ethnicity and citizenship are two different things.

Austrians have existed for hundreds of years and like Bavarians, Prussians and others, were considered to be a part of the Germans.
There is no such thing as ethnic Germans :
Of course there is such a thing.
Boris Johnson has no English ethnicity : his forefathers were Jewish, German, French, Osman ,etc .. but that does not prevent him to be accepted as the PM of Britain .
No one has ever claimed Boris Johnson to be of just English ethnicity.
The ethnicity of Bonaparte was Italian, but he was French Emperor, the German ethnicity of Hitler is very dubious,but that did not prevent him to be the dictator of Germany .
I have already given the example of Madeleine Albright who spoke Czech and had a Czech culture but was not an ethnic Czech.The same for Kissinger who was not an ethnic German .
Eh? I thought that you didn’t think ethnicity existed. How dare you assume Bonaparte’s ‘ethnicity’!!!

Bonaparte was an ethnically Italian and Hitler was ethnically German.

Madeleine Albright was ethnically Jewish.

You are always contradicting yourself.
There is no such thing as ethnicity, ethnicity is only a politically correct word for race .
Back to basic 101:
An ethnic group or an ethnicity is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, culture, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area. Ethnicity is sometimes used interchangeably with the term nation, particularly in cases of ethnic nationalism, and is separate from the related concept of races.
YOU are claiming that after 1866 German speaking inhabitants of Cisleithania ,were ethnic Germans , but you can,t answer the question why til 1918 these ethnic Germans refused to be a part of a German state and preferred to remain citizens of a supranational state .
Speaking German and ''having a German culture '' (haha ) does not make you a German .
The Austrians lost the war that ultimately unified Germany and therefore had no role to play in German affairs.

How many times do I need to keep posting that basic historical fact for you to understand it?

Someone is ethnically German if his or her ancestors were ethnic Germans i.e. They were/are German-speakers and belong to German culture.
The German speaking citizens of Switzerland who have a German culture are NOT ethnic Germans, they would feel insulted if you would call them ethnic Germans .
The French speaking inhabitants of Wallonia are NOT ethnic French, the Dutch speaking inhabitants of Flanders are not ethnic Dutch,the German speaking inhabitants of South Tirol are not ethnic Germans .
Well according to you there’s no such thing as ethnicity, so how do you know all of this?

Anyway, 65% of Swiss identify as ethnic Germans.

From Information about Switzerland, Also known as Confoederatio Helvetica (therefore the abbreviation CH):

https://www.about.ch/statistics/index.html
The coach of FC Anderlecht, Vincent Kompany, speaks Dutch, French, English , but this does not make him ethnic French, Dutch or British .
Because his ancestors are not from those countries.

Speaking a language =/= Belonging to an ethnic group
You have no proof that the people who lived before 1918 on the territory of what is now Austria, considered themselves as Austrians .
Did Badeni consider himself as Austrian ?Did the immigrants from Galicia, from Hungary,etc consider themselves as Austrians ?
28 % of the inhabitants of Styria had not German as main language in 1910 ,but that does not mean that they did not consider themselves as Austrians or that the other 70 % considered themselves as Austrians .Language and what you call wrongly ethnicity are independent from each other .
A very big part of the inhabitants of Styria were bilingual,or even trilingual, thus : what was their ''ethnicity '' ?

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