Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
George L Gregory
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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by George L Gregory » 10 Apr 2022 11:11

Topspeed wrote:
10 Apr 2022 07:14
Am I imagining, but does it echo here ?
You have even been warned by an administrator.

Answer the question.

It appears that you’re in denial for whatever reason and that’s it. Whatever…

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Sid Guttridge » 10 Apr 2022 16:10

Double post.
Last edited by Sid Guttridge on 10 Apr 2022 16:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Sid Guttridge » 10 Apr 2022 16:11

Hi Topspeed,

If you find the atmosphere echoey, it might be because you are failing to fill the void with an answer.

Come on, give it a go. GLGs questioning is sound. By comparison, your evasion of it is intellectually pusillanimous.

It reflects poorly on you and will affect your general credibility elsewhere on AHF.

Well?

Cheers,

Sid.

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Topspeed
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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 11 Apr 2022 08:45

Sid Guttridge wrote:
10 Apr 2022 16:11
Hi Topspeed,

If you find the atmosphere echoey, it might be because you are failing to fill the void with an answer.

Come on, give it a go. GLGs questioning is sound. By comparison, your evasion of it is intellectually pusillanimous.

It reflects poorly on you and will affect your general credibility elsewhere on AHF.

Well?

Cheers,

Sid.
I have provided even links for the answer, but he refuses to believe or accept the answer.

That is his problem not mine. That also makes him a troll.

gebhk
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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by gebhk » 11 Apr 2022 14:06

However, I have studied Linguistic’s a bit. Linking Fenno- Ugric languages with the Ural mountains is old school which moderns scholars aren’t really concerned with. If you want to go with that, fine.
Your studies seem to have missed the point that the name of a language family does not necessarily depend on where that family originated geographically. A turkey is still a turkey in English even though we now know it does not originate from Turkey. All that matters is that that was the name coined for it and that it stuck. The term Finno-Ugric (or Fenno-Ugric) that Topspeed (quite correctly) says Finnish belongs too is either a somewhat old-fashioned synonym of Uralic (from before Samoyedic was 'discovered'), a synonym for Uralic of a minority of modern linguists who believe Samoyedic is a branch of the Ugric group (rather than a group in itself which branched off before the Fennic and Ugric groups split off - the majority view) and for the vast majority of modern liguists, a sub-family of the Uralic family that excludes Samoyedic languages. Whichever way, it is a Uralic language, something that even the Wiki entry on the Finnish language confirms in the very first sentence.

Given that 'Uralic' is a term freely used by modern liguists (herewith a random sample)

Abondolo, Daniel M. (editor). 1998. The Uralic Languages. London and New York: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-08198-X.
Aikio, Ante (2019). "Proto-Uralic". In Bakró-Nagy, Marianne; Laakso, Johanna; Skribnik, Elena (eds.). Oxford Guide to the Uralic Languages. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.

I really don't see the problem.

And, while we are at it, there is no convincing proof of where proto-Uralic came from so it is not beyond possibility that it was from areas in the vicinity of the Urals. Nor is the idea that old school, given that as recently as 2009, Jaakko Hakkinen argued for a Uralic languages homeland bertween the Oka and the Urals.
Last edited by gebhk on 11 Apr 2022 21:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 11 Apr 2022 16:53

Here ( where I live ) is a stone age village ( almost ) from 5500 years ago near by...I don't think finns came from anywhere near Urals in any forseeable time. I'd say the tribes spread out possibly into Urals...some of them.

Btw when did the "indians" actually travel to american continent from Siberia via Bering Straights ?

gebhk
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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by gebhk » 11 Apr 2022 17:47

With respect, what does any of that have to do with the subject in hand, which is the family of languages Finnish belongs to?

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 11 Apr 2022 20:36

I have no idea...just came to me. Ural is a place...mountains ?

gebhk
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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by gebhk » 11 Apr 2022 20:53

Again, so?

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 12 Apr 2022 05:25

gebhk wrote:
11 Apr 2022 20:53
Again, so?
I tought about it over the night.

What if indians are decendands of the denisova people...who were pushed further by Finno-Ugric tribes ?

Could they have coexisted ? Did they mingle ?

Do Indians have relationship within the multiple languages with finno-ugrig language.

Has anyone studied/researched that ?

I recalls finns when conquering the west did excellent with indians....and had families. Could they be sorta related ?

This certainly was not in the Nazi propaganda, but could it be possibly be tested with dna etc.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by gebhk » 12 Apr 2022 07:30

What if indians are decendands of the denisova people...who were pushed further by Finno-Ugric tribes ?
In some small measure, yes, as well as of Neanderthals. It would appear, also, more so than Europeans and that the Denisovan and Neanderthal DNA they carry is different to that of Europeans (if the later carry Denisovan at all - it is not universal in Europeans). However, again, I somewaht fail to see what this has to do with the name of the language family the Finnish language belongs to.
Do Indians have relationship within the multiple languages with finno-ugrig language.
As there are literally dozens of theories of how Amerindian languages developed, take your pick. But again, how does that illuminate the question of which family of languages Finnish belongs to?
Last edited by gebhk on 13 Apr 2022 06:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 12 Apr 2022 10:09

gebhk wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:30
What if indians are decendands of the denisova people...who were pushed further by Finno-Ugric tribes ?
In some small measure, yes, as well as of Neanderthals. It would appear, also, more so than Europeans and that the Denisovan and Neanderthal DNA they carry is different to that of Europeans (if they carry Denisovan at all - it is not universal in Europeans). However, again, I somewaht fail to see what this has to do with the name of the language family the Finnish language belongs to.
Do Indians have relationship within the multiple languages with finno-ugrig language.
As there are literally dozens of theories of how Amerindian languages developed, take your pick. But again, how does that illuminate the question of which family of languages Finnish belongs to?
Wasn't it finno-ugrig ?

It also fully phonetic...unlike english or french.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by gebhk » 13 Apr 2022 06:56

And again - Finno-Ugric (aka Fenno-Ugric) is either a subset of Uralic or (for a small minority of linguists, it would appear) a synonym of Uralic. So again, what is the problem? Either way, Finnish is a Uralic language.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 13 Apr 2022 07:09

I my opinion finnish is in no way an uralic language.

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Re: Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

Post by Topspeed » 13 Apr 2022 07:12

Uralic languages are knitted with finnish language as they have some commonalities.

I see that as finns can understand ( almost ) Estonian ja Karelian languages they are Fenno languages.

Where as H u n g a r i a n is by intonation related thus comes the Ugric.

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