What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

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wm
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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by wm » 05 Feb 2021 23:13

So actually the Nazis didn't envisage a victorious war so they could carry out their real ideas and plans e.g. the complete Final Solution to the Jewish Question. And that as late as 1940.

It happened when the Barbarossa failed and the war was lost.

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 05 Feb 2021 23:27

wm wrote:
05 Feb 2021 23:13
So actually the Nazis didn't envisage a victorious war so they could carry out their real ideas and plans e.g. the complete Final Solution to the Jewish Question. And that as late as 1940.

It happened when the Barbarossa failed and the war was lost.
Nope.

Hitler's prophecy in January 1939:
If international finance Jewry inside and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, the result will be not the Bolshevization of the earth and thereby the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.
Allusions to Hitler's prophecy were mentioned since early 1941 by Nazi propaganda.

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by wm » 06 Feb 2021 00:38

There is no logical link between the "prophecy" and the Holocaust.
"Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East" and the Madagascar Plan prove it.

Actually, Hitler supported the Nazi-Jewish Haavara Agreement, he proposed in 1939 another agreement that would allow all German Jews to emigrate.

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 06 Feb 2021 14:09

wm wrote:
06 Feb 2021 00:38
There is no logical link between the "prophecy" and the Holocaust.
"Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East" and the Madagascar Plan prove it.

Actually, Hitler supported the Nazi-Jewish Haavara Agreement, he proposed in 1939 another agreement that would allow all German Jews to emigrate.
Hitler threatened that if the Jews brought about another war then it would result in the extermination of the Jews in Europe. What happened? The Nazis started WW2. What happened during that war? Wait for it... oh yeah, the Nazis killed some six million Jews.

Yet you think that there is "no logical link" between his prophecy and the Holocaust. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by wm » 06 Feb 2021 21:24

Nobody knows what he meant by "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe (1939)" and you don't know that either.

Considering "the concepts of Jews will be completely extinguished through the possibility of a large emigration of all Jews to Africa or some other colony (1940)" and "Fuehrer read the six pages and considered them very good and correct."

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 07 Feb 2021 17:43

wm wrote:
06 Feb 2021 21:24
Nobody knows what he meant by "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe (1939)" and you don't know that either.

Considering "the concepts of Jews will be completely extinguished through the possibility of a large emigration of all Jews to Africa or some other colony (1940)" and "Fuehrer read the six pages and considered them very good and correct."
It was a threat and the meaning of "annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe" is as clear as day.

What you quoted was from 1940. From 1941, the Nazis regularly alluded to Hitler's earlier 1939 prophecy.

The Madagascar Plan was abandoned after the Germans lost the Battle of Britain. We all know what happened to the Jews in the following years.

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Feb 2021 12:23

Canadian historian Robert Gellately in his book The Gestapo and German Society Enforcing Racial Policy 1933-1945 studied how many people had been accused and punished for race defilement.

He looked at the Gestapo files for the northern Bavarian town Würzburg.

Below shows the figures for accusations of race defilement and even just showing friendliness towards Jews:

Image

The causes for those two things are illustrated brlow:

Image

https://pages.uoregon.edu/dluebke/Holoc ... chande.htm

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Feb 2021 12:54

Professor Marion A Kaplan in her book Between Dignity and Despair: Jewish Life in Nazi Germany on page 80 wrote:
The judiciary viewed "race defilement" as seriously as "high teason" (Hochverrat and Landesverrat)—the other major crimes to the "body of the Volk" (Volkskörper)—and handed down severe penintentiary sentences to male offenders. By the end of 1938, the average sentence was four to five years, with Jewish men receiving longer and harsher sentences than "Aryan" men. Jewish women were taken into "protective custody" as soon as their "Aryan" lovers were convicted. During the war, alleged Jewish transgressors—male and female—were deported to their deaths, frequently without trial. Others, as in the case of a Jewish man from Nuremberg, were executed after rigged trials even during the deportations. Such executions were probably intended as lessons to the "Aryan" population, since the Jews were to be murdered anyway.
American author Bryan Mark Rigg in his book Hitler's Jewish Soldiers The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military in his footnotes uses the sources:
31. For example, after the authorities found out that an SS man had fallen in love and had relations with a Jewish woman, both were immediately executed. Gilbert, Holocaust, p. 681. A more extreme handling of a Rassenschande case happened to Lehmann Katzenberger, president of the Jewish community in Nuremberg, who was sentenced to death for kissing the Aryan Irene Seile. Hilberg, p. 111. See also BA-MA, BMRS, File Dieter Fischer, Bl. 72.

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Feb 2021 16:04

Since the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour did not cover the death penalty for race defilement, the Nazis found other ways of getting around it.

For example, the infamous Katzenberger Trial. Lehmann (Leo) Katzenberger was accused of having an affair with a German (Aryan) woman. Despite no evidence actually coming to light that he even had the affair, he was sentenced to death on 14 March 1942 using the Volkschädlingsgesetz law solely on a single eyewitness account who saw him leaving the woman's apartment "when it was already dark".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katzenberger_Trial

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by ManfredV » 08 Feb 2021 16:58

That's what they did. Not only in such cases but generally. Punishment without evidence or punishment according to law but after jail sentence people were brought to KZ.
Before war people were sentenced to jail (and KZ afterwards). During war: death penalty. "Jews" with "Aryans", Germans with Slaves...

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Feb 2021 19:11

Another example:
As Gross shows, the pervasiveness of this moral revulsion toward Jews was such that it often manifested itself in judgements handed down by German courts. Gross illustrates this point through a close textual analysis of the judgement against Werner Höllander by the Special Court in Kassel in 1943. The court convicted Höllander of "race defilement" on the basis of his having had a sexual relationship relation with an "Aryan" woman despite the fact that Höllander, who had been raised as a Protestant, had not been aware that he was Jewish according to Nazi racial laws. The crime of "race defilement" did not carry the death penalty according to the Nuremberg Laws, but the judges found a way to justify his execution, invoking the language of moral indignation. The court twisted the law to impose a punishment that it regarded as commensurate with the moral gravity of the crime.
Alan E. Steinweis, The Law in Nazi Germany Ideology, Opportunism, and the Perversion of Justice, page 9.

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 09 Feb 2021 12:37

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency published an article on 1 February 1940 titled, "Danzig Jew Doomed to Die for Living with ‘aryan’ Woman".
A 49-year-old Jew, Max Cohen, has been sentenced to death by a Danzig court for “continuous Rassenschande” in living with an “Aryan” woman, it was reported here today. The woman, Paula Neihardt, was sentenced to 18 months’ imprisonment and a large fine, with loss of civil rights for three years, for assisting Cohn to pose as an “Aryan.”
https://www.jta.org/1940/02/01/archive/ ... ryan-woman

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by Linkagain » 08 May 2021 21:28

1933 public humilitation
https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibit ... ankner.asp

Danker went into german custody and several years later was executed...

Years ago I read that Journalist Quienten Reynolds {who wrote a biography of Adolf Eichmann "Minister of Death'] that he had been expelled from Germany for writing about the fate of a mixed married couple: the Jewish husband had been taken to a KZ camp his non Jewish wife was socially outcast so badly she went insane. Can anyone confirm this story?

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Re: What was the punishment according to the Nuremberg Laws for race defilement?

Post by George L Gregory » 16 May 2021 11:08

Linkagain wrote:
08 May 2021 21:28
1933 public humilitation
https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibit ... ankner.asp

Danker went into german custody and several years later was executed...

Years ago I read that Journalist Quienten Reynolds {who wrote a biography of Adolf Eichmann "Minister of Death'] that he had been expelled from Germany for writing about the fate of a mixed married couple: the Jewish husband had been taken to a KZ camp his non Jewish wife was socially outcast so badly she went insane. Can anyone confirm this story?
That photo is a well known when it comes to the subject Rassenschande (race defilement). People found guilty of the 'crime' were often paraded around their town or city with placards detailing their so-called crime.

That photo was taken in 1933 before it was even illegal for German and Jews to have sexual relations or marry each other. In 1933, the Nazis passed the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service degree which considered one Jewish grandparent to be sufficient enough to consider someone a Jew. A couple of years later and those people were considered quarter-Jews (second degree Mischlinge) and were allowed to be Reich citizens and have sexual relations with Germans and marry Germans.


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