Need help id unit..

Need help with translating WW1, Inter-War or WW2 related documents or information?
Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 18:09

There is no 4./Hauptmannschaft either...!!!!

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 18:59

Everything I am reading about the police units, at this time make me think this guy , had an early nco career, served possibly in afrika, then transfered into a police unit or sonderunit. Possibly working somewhere along the DGIV. This helmet never saw a factory refurb, and was used continously until this guy was killed. There are at least four layers of original paint, holding this helmet together. I have been reading and trying to reaserch as much as i can, but without a clear unit name, its all guess work.!

history1
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by history1 » 20 Jun 2020 21:09


history1
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by history1 » 20 Jun 2020 21:30

Kplamb wrote:
20 Jun 2020 18:07
Im making a calculated guess , been through every death record and vermistenbildliste, looking for an Obwm.Kissel.
I found one in the vermistenbildliste, but it was not him, he was ss berlin.
No other Kissel with this rank.
Do you seriously call this research and "calculated guess"?
There is only the inscription "Obwm. Kissel" in the helmet, do I understand this correctly? How do you know that this man got not promoted later or that he was even KIA? How do you know that his first name is Adam? Calculated guess?
BTW, it´s Vermisstenbildliste/n and "SS", "Berlin", etc.. AFAIK even in English names do start with capital letters.
And there is no SS-rank "Wachtmeister/Oberwachtmeister".
Kplamb wrote:
20 Jun 2020 18:07
[...] It is a very early EF68 lotnr 593 with a 1938 liner original to the shell judging by the pitting.
Not many helmets in this lotnr range..!!
Thats all I can tell you.
And what does this tell you about the unit of this man? Nothing.

Kplamb
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Location: Lancaster

Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 08:55

183 males are recorded as died. All with the same name, Kissel. 7-8 of thoses were ss, only one held the rank of wachtmeister. All the rest were lower rank, or officers...
Instead of getting angry listen...
I have spent 3years looking through the names of the war dead....

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 09:34

What the helmet looked like when i recieved it, not my pictures.
Picture helm 006.jpg
Picture helm 008.jpg
I soaked the helmet in oxalic acid bath for 4hrs. To remove all loose rust..
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 09:41

I spent 12 months trying to connect this to the afrikakorps, only found one person called Walter Kissel, O'gefr 19th flak-division stab-nachschub. He was taken to prisoner in 1943 age 19yrs. He acctually stayed in America.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 10:58

Units with a 4/IV in the area at the time..
26450
(15.2.1942-30.7.1942) Hoherer SS- u. Polizeifuhrer Dg IV
Einsatzstab Dnjepropetrowsk
(31.7.1942-9.2.1943) Stab Polizei-Sicherungs-Abteilung Dg IV
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 13.5.1944 gestrichen.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 13:22

Some police units kept there rank. Even after the 1942 takeover by the SS. The names in the vermistenbild are not alphabetical, so have had to go through, page by page, and I only found one person with the name kissel so far, and he did not fit.On ancestry, i found only 117 death cards with the name kissel,kessel,kiecle, that are confirmed dead, according to the cards.
I have been through 300,000 cards so far. No other person fits the rank. Except for maybe this guy. So I though I would take it from him, get the info from WAST. If the guy served in afrika, then the police somehow.
Then this could be a match, Im only doing this out of interest.!

wwilson
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by wwilson » 21 Jun 2020 17:38

As far the unit mentioned goes ... that is really an oddball designation. Yet, from Tessin's "Waffen SS und Ordnungspolizei im Kriegseinsatz 1939 - 1945", page 594: (my translation)
On 6 March 1942, the organization was ordered of a Police Security Battalion (German: Abteilung) on the Durchgangstrasse IV. This was accomplished through the Police Administration of Berlin and made up of 546 men in four companies. This battalion of selected German policemen was deployed in the smallest groups over a breadth of 1400 kilometers and supervised the Schuma battalions from Ostland and Ukraine, as well as hundreds of workers (employed by?) their own battalion. Feldpost number for the staff was 26450; the companies had their own FP numbers.
So: "Durchgangstrasse IV" must have been the name used by German occupation authorities for a transit road located in the Ukraine.

ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durchgangsstrasse_IV , removed my mistaken speculation.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 21:43

or maybe back to front.!?
1. Kompanie Polizei-Sicherungs-Abteilung Dg IV

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 21:44

Its probably the closest, im going to get without the help of WAST.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 21 Jun 2020 23:47

FP:27383
(Mobilmachung-1.1.1940) 6. Sturm SS-Standarte Der Fuhrer
(2.1.1940-27.4.1940) gestrichen, wurde Fp.Nr. 11707 C
(15.2.1942-30.7.1942) SS u. Polizeifuhrer Dg. IV Oberbauabschnitt
Stalino
(31.7.1942-9.2.1943) 4. Kompanie Polizei-Sicherungs-Abteilung Dg
IV
(10.2.1943-23.8.1943) 4. Kompanie Polizei-Sicherungs-Abteilung Dg
IV
und 1.-3. Kompanie Schutzmannschaft-Bataillon 4
(24.8.1943-5.4.1944) 20.11.1943 gestrichen
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 2.11.1944 Stab, 1.-2. Kompanie u.
Versorgungs-Staffel Divisions-Nachrichten-Abteilung 352

history1
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by history1 » 22 Jun 2020 09:09

Can some admin or other member with this rights move this thread from the improper
“Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier”-subforum to "Axis Uniforms, Headgear & Insignia"?
There was/is no translation request and though I translated the file in post #1 this guys are hunting a ghost with information from who God only knows.

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