Need help id unit..

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Kplamb
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Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 18 Jun 2020 11:36

Im trying to find a unit for this guy, I think I have his helmet.! I think it says 4./Haupt***** 1.pol.btl
But I cant find any unit with this name.?
Kriegslaz. 533 - Kopie 2.jpg
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wwilson
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by wwilson » 18 Jun 2020 15:01

Not much help, but that unit ID may be missing the police battalion number (?). I read that as 1. / Pol. Btl. , that is as the first company of Police Battalion ???

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 18 Jun 2020 16:59

Im thinking it actually says 4./Hauptmsch. = IV Hauptmannschaft 1./pol.btl, Wm.d.sch. = Wachtmeister d.Schuma
In other words he was in charge of 4./kompanie of a Ukranian schuma battalion.
Does anyone know if I have enough info to do WAST search.?

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 18 Jun 2020 17:02

Polizei-Sicherungs-Abteilung Dg IV (Durchgangsstrasse IV)

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 18 Jun 2020 17:04

That should be wachtmeiser d.Schutzmannschaft

history1
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by history1 » 19 Jun 2020 16:29

Last and First name: Kissel Adam
DOB: Dec. 29th 1898 in: Eich/Worms [Eich near Worms] County:
Formation: 4th Hauptmannschaft [police company]/ 1st Police battalion
Rank: Wachtmeister der Schutzpolizei
Identification tag:
Day of death: Dec. 13th 1943 - Place of death: Kriegslazarett 5/533/R - Burried on:
Location and Nr. of grave: Winniza [Ukraine], row VIII, grave 16

The info at the bottom covers the registration (number and page) in the casualty lists, IMHO.
He´s also mentioned in the Volksbund grave search:
https://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/d ... aef372d5a8

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 19 Jun 2020 18:01

found this too, could be the same guy. Trying to get this info...
R 9361-III/347100
Kissel, Adam

Bestandsbezeichnung
Sammlung Berlin Document Center (BDC): Personenbezogene Unterlagen der SS und SA
Bemerkung
Geburtsdatum
12.1.1895
Geburtsort
Neu Isenburg
Unterlagenart
Sachakte
Alte Signatur
VBS 284 / 6209009066
Benutzungsort
Berlin-Lichterfelde

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 19 Jun 2020 18:02

neu isenburg is 2hrs away on a push bike from the town of eich. What would the odds be of there being 2 Adam Kissels in the same location??

history1
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by history1 » 19 Jun 2020 19:51

Different place and date of birth. Just two men with the same name, IMHO. Kissel is a common name there, also nowadays. And Adam was obviously a popular first name at the end of the 19th century.
Nothing uncommon. Next.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 13:59

1m35.jpg
2m35.jpg
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Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 14:04

3m35.jpg
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Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 14:05

4m35.jpg
5m35.jpg
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Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 14:06

with some possible service in north afrika/greece/balkans

history1
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by history1 » 20 Jun 2020 16:37

When he died in the Ukraine, why do you possess his helmet?
And to be honest, you´re doing too much guesswork for my taste. That starts already in post #3 (Wm.d.sch. = Wachtmeister d.Schuma. In other words he was in charge of 4./kompanie of a Ukranian schuma battalion.) where there is NO reference to the Schuma in your document, continued in your next post #4 (Polizei-Sicherungs-Abteilung Dg IV (Durchgangsstrasse IV) and I wonder where from did you get this? This is utter nonsense and doesn´t fit neither to the file as it´s not written on it. "Durchgangsstraße" = "transit road".
And in your last post you´re even suggesting service in Africa, Greece or Balkan?

BTW, the inscription in the helmet reads " Obwm. [ = Oberwachtmeister) Kissel".
The Volksbund lists alone six persons with the name "Kissel Adam" and 183 "Kissel" overall.

Kplamb
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Re: Need help id unit..

Post by Kplamb » 20 Jun 2020 18:07

Im making a calculated guess , been through every death record and vermistenbildliste, looking for an Obwm.Kissel.
I found one in the vermistenbildliste, but it was not him, he was ss berlin.
No other Kissel with this rank. Wich led me to look through the death cards on ancestry. Still only this guy pops out, the area in germany he was from is also very intriguing.
Im going to see if they can find this guy in the WAST, something afrika korps about the paint.
The actual helmet looks to have spent some time, on a post(possible grave marker)(I will try and photograph what i mean).! Eventually this helmet, got buried, was dug up in vinnista, sold to a uk collector, then bought by me....
It is a very early EF68 lotnr 593 with a 1938 liner original to the shell judging by the pitting.

Not many helmets in this lotnr range..!!

Thats all I can tell you.

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