Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

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R Leonard
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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by R Leonard » 25 Jul 2021 06:32

Yeah, Currie, I thought of that too. Perhaps, if FDR was not exactly "not in favor" then he might be described as ambivalent until all other pressing issues, both in the US and with Great Britain were straightened out. That would be a long, long wait. Some of those memos are interesting though.

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Takao
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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Takao » 25 Jul 2021 10:39

A long, long 2 months
Image
Before FDR gave his approval.

Of course, the wait would be longer, as the aircraft had to be collected, pilots and maintenance crews hired, and then everything and everybody had to be shipped to China.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 25 Jul 2021 11:18

Hi Takao,

Is this specifically about the diversion of heavy bombers allocated to the UK? The RAF began trialling its first 20 B-17s on operations at this time, but without much success. Were more on order?

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Takao » 25 Jul 2021 13:25

No, the B-17 & B-24 was never seriously considered until HALPRO/FORCE AQUILA in 1942. This was for light bombers for the AVG 2, Lockheed Hudsons & DB-7s - which were made available through "horse trading" with thr Army & British.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by OpanaPointer » 25 Jul 2021 13:43

rcocean wrote:
25 Jul 2021 01:08
BTw, its hilarous Currie's name keeps popping up, given he was a Soviet Spy. LIke Harry Dexter White.
A good spy doesn't stick up from the crowd, he/she does the job they're assigned.
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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by EwenS » 25 Jul 2021 16:43

Takao wrote:
25 Jul 2021 13:25
No, the B-17 & B-24 was never seriously considered until HALPRO/FORCE AQUILA in 1942. This was for light bombers for the AVG 2, Lockheed Hudsons & DB-7s - which were made available through "horse trading" with thr Army & British.
An initial 33 Hudsons from British lend lease allocations were transferred to China between Dec 1941 and July 1942 but not all made it there, some crashing on delivery flights. Two further aircraft allocated to Britain were transferred as replacement for aircraft that crashed in the US. Another British Hudson that became unservicable in China was handed over for spares.

China apparently requested DB-7s that became available after the fall of the DEI in 1942. The request was withdrawn when the Hudsons were made available. As a result none of this type went to China.

That is from "Air Arsenal North America Aircraft for the Allies 1938-1945 Purchases and Lend-Lease"

The 23 B-24D that made up the HALPRO force were amongst the first produced. They left the US on 20 May 1942 via the South Atlantic ferry route and across Africa. By the time the reached the Middle East around the beginning of June, the Japanese offensive in China had, or was about to, overrun their proposed base so they were held in the Middle East to reinforce the RAF.

The first 4 engined heavy bombers to arrive in India belonged to the US 7th BG from March 1942. The 7th BG staged through Chengtu to attack the Lin-hsi coal mines on 21 Oct 1942 and marked the first use of USAAF heavy bombers in China. The first RAF Liberator squadron arrived in India in Sept 1942. No B-17s saw operational use in the CBI theatre as the 7th BG left its B-17s in Australia for other units before moving to India.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by robdab » 29 Jul 2021 17:50

.
The 2006 article at https://www.warbirdforum.com/elusive.htm seems to be a nice summary of the entire historical situation.

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Takao
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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Takao » 29 Jul 2021 19:25

robdab wrote:
29 Jul 2021 17:50
.
The 2006 article at https://www.warbirdforum.com/elusive.htm seems to be a nice summary of the entire historical situation.
Yes, Robdab...I posted that link 10 days ago...See post #13.
Glad to see you are paying attention to this conversation.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by robdab » 29 Jul 2021 21:58

Takao wrote:
29 Jul 2021 19:25
robdab wrote:
29 Jul 2021 17:50
.
The 2006 article at https://www.warbirdforum.com/elusive.htm seems to be a nice summary of the entire historical situation.
Yes, Robdab...I posted that link 10 days ago...See post #13.
Glad to see you are paying attention to this conversation.
A bit late to the game aren't you ? I first posted it to AHF way back in 2010 ! And as you have stated here, you were a large part of that same thread.

Please try to keep up with the discussion won't you ?

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Takao » 29 Jul 2021 23:21

robdab wrote:
29 Jul 2021 21:58
Takao wrote:
29 Jul 2021 19:25
robdab wrote:
29 Jul 2021 17:50
.
The 2006 article at https://www.warbirdforum.com/elusive.htm seems to be a nice summary of the entire historical situation.
Yes, Robdab...I posted that link 10 days ago...See post #13.
Glad to see you are paying attention to this conversation.
A bit late to the game aren't you ? I first posted it to AHF way back in 2010 ! And as you have stated here, you were a large part of that same thread.

Please try to keep up with the discussion won't you ?
Are you sure...I mean really really sure.

Let's see...

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=162193&p=1422544&h ... e#p1422544
Seems, I provided you with the link in my post #5 of that thread.

Your response...
Gents,

Thanks for the info/sources.
But, by all means link to an earlier post proving your memory is correct.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by robdab » 06 Aug 2021 20:02

So, is no one interested in discussing what the possible effects of FDR's authorized AVGII bombing missions over Japan might have been ?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Aug 2021 20:13

Hi robdab,

I guess it rather depends if any American aircrew were captured or their identifiable bodies found by the Japanese.

If not, as the Chinese had apparently managed to raid Japan once before in the conflict without international consequences, the Japanese might well have chosen to ignore it.

Indeed, even if American aircrew and/or bodies were found, they still had the option to cover it up publicly until they could deliver their Pearl Harbour surprise attack.

Cheers,

Sid

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R Leonard
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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by R Leonard » 06 Aug 2021 21:56

And, of course, the difference between a plan "approval", e.g. War Plans Red, Green, Black, Orange, etc. and actual execution. From what I see, this is a lot of would be, could be, from Currie, and the Chinese Nationalists, that, literally, never got off the ground. There is, in case no one ever noticed, a huge difference between a plan stuck away in a file and the actual nuts and bolts of execution. So, FDR liked the plan & said work it out, but no one ever did . . . which makes said plan just fodder for the conspiracy wonks. Big deal.

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Takao » 06 Aug 2021 22:26

robdab wrote:
06 Aug 2021 20:02
So, is no one interested in discussing what the possible effects of FDR's authorized AVGII bombing missions over Japan might have been ?
The "What if" section of the forum is located elsewhere.

And we have been down that road before...As you well know.

PS. Still waiting for that link...

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Re: Roosevelt agreed a proposal to bomb Japan in 1940.

Post by Takao » 07 Aug 2021 03:01

Sid Guttridge wrote:
06 Aug 2021 20:13
Hi robdab,

I guess it rather depends if any American aircrew were captured or their identifiable bodies found by the Japanese.

If not, as the Chinese had apparently managed to raid Japan once before in the conflict without international consequences, the Japanese might well have chosen to ignore it.

Indeed, even if American aircrew and/or bodies were found, they still had the option to cover it up publicly until they could deliver their Pearl Harbour surprise attack.

Cheers,

Sid
The Chinese raided Japan once, but they dropped leaflets instead of bombs.

Soviet pilots, flying Soviet bombers, bombed Formosa.
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n1/luks.html
No international incident occurred.

https://www.rbth.com/history/332411-how ... et-victory
Also, mentions that Americans claimed they were responsible for the Soviet raid.

Yes, there were American pilots and American planesinCHina before the AVG.
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0699before/

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