Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Discussions on WW2 in the Pacific and the Sino-Japanese War.
Delta Tank
Member
Posts: 2368
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 01:51
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by Delta Tank » 29 Apr 2020 14:03

To all,

I tried to see if this article had been posted on this thread, I could not find it, so I will post it. I did not know that The 147 th Infantry Regiment fought on Iwo Jima. Here is an article about their actions:

https://history.army.mil/armyhistory/AH105(W).pdf

Mike

User avatar
dgfred
Member
Posts: 225
Joined: 31 Jan 2008 16:56
Location: N.C., USA

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by dgfred » 29 Apr 2020 16:43

Nice. Thanks Delta

daveshoup2MD
Member
Posts: 805
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 18:10
Location: Coral and brass

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 11 Mar 2021 05:57

hoot72 wrote:
30 Mar 2020 10:38
Kim Sung wrote:
15 Dec 2006 12:35
Today I've read an interesting article in Bungeishunju (文芸春秋), according to which Japanese tactical victory over US marine at Iwojima can be explained from two points.

First, the Japanese commander Kuribayashi Tadamich forbade his men to commit gyokusai. They fought to the end instead, thus causing enormous loss to US marines.

Second, Kuribayashi didn't apply seashore combat (水際作戦) which usually resulted in slaughter of Japanese soldiers at beaches. Instead, the Japanese waited until Americans landed and take a backlash and constant guerilla warfare.

I know there are other reasons the Americans suffered a huge loss at Iwojima. But these two points are fresh. Any opinions will be welcomed.
How is it a tactical defeat of the US at Iwo Jima when they actually captured it?

Very strange logic you have.

Heavy losses in manpower does not equate to a "tactical defeat" if the objectives are met or achieved./
By the same logic, the Allies were defeated at Rome and the Soviets at Berlin.

paulrward
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 20:14

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by paulrward » 11 Mar 2021 06:45

Hello All ;

Yup, Iwo was a disastrous defeat for the Marines - slaughtered in the shallow water in their landing
crafts, massacred on the beaches, cut down trying to scale Suribachi, and ultimately driven off the
island by the Victorious Japanese.

So...... Why are these guys smiling ?

Respectfully :

Paul R. Ward
Iwo Tactical Defeat.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Information not shared, is information lost
Voices that are banned, are voices who cannot share information....
Discussions that are silenced, are discussions that will occur elsewhere !

Linkagain
Member
Posts: 340
Joined: 13 Apr 2021 18:04
Location: US

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by Linkagain » 04 Jul 2021 15:56

Okinawa too could also be considered a tactical defeat for US Forces by dividing Japanese losses ratio with US Loses
for every one square yard
1 IJA {dead}
3 US KIA
7 US WIa
one saying is that WW II Japanese servicemen would vow to take 10 of the enemy with him....Okinawa and Iwo Jima were Island and part of Mainland Japan proper....if the Allies tried a ground/air/sae invastion of Japan the only way to survive was to Kill every one of the Population.. civilian and military and dont forget Japan still had a 1,000,000 army in China...US servicemen in europe fisnished withe Germans when told they were going to Japan wrote out their last wills....

User avatar
R Leonard
Member
Posts: 407
Joined: 16 Oct 2003 02:48
Location: The Old Dominion

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by R Leonard » 04 Jul 2021 18:08

I think your math is a little off. How many square yards did you come up with for 466 square miles?

Okinawa = 466 sq mi. 1 sq mi = 3,097,600 sq yd. 466 x 3,097,600 = ? sq yd?

Now make your estimates.

And while there were somewhat more than 1,000,000 Japanese soldiers in all those occupied areas of China in 1945, they had no way to get to the home islands unless they swam.

User avatar
R Leonard
Member
Posts: 407
Joined: 16 Oct 2003 02:48
Location: The Old Dominion

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by R Leonard » 05 Jul 2021 20:04

Tried to figure out how you arrived at your ratios, but quickly determined that none of the standard land measurements, acres, square miles, nor even square kilometers can possibly bring us to the numbers you originally posted.

User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 3310
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 19:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by Takao » 05 Jul 2021 23:27

I'm certain the okinawa casualty numbers are way off, which skews the whole shebang.

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 8847
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 06 Jul 2021 02:10

Takao wrote:
05 Jul 2021 23:27
I'm certain the okinawa casualty numbers are way off, which skews the whole shebang.
So are some ideas about the actual ability of the Japanese. A read of Col Yaharas account of the battle of Okinawa deeply challenges some core ideas about Japanese resistance.

User avatar
R Leonard
Member
Posts: 407
Joined: 16 Oct 2003 02:48
Location: The Old Dominion

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by R Leonard » 06 Jul 2021 13:58

Takao wrote:
05 Jul 2021 23:27
I'm certain the okinawa casualty numbers are way off, which skews the whole shebang.
Well, there is that, too. Wasn't going to address casualty figures until we straightened out land measurements. That said, it is apparent that whatever numbers being used for casualties in the original presentation are seriously flawed.

User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 3310
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 19:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by Takao » 06 Jul 2021 14:41

Given that Okinawa deaths were 12,200+ American to 110,000 Japanese(troops & Okinawan conscripts). There is no way that the casualty rate was 3 American KIA for 1 Japanese KIA per square yard no matter how badly one butchers the yardage calculation.

The ratio improves slightly if Iwo & Okinawa casualties are added together.

Linkagain
Member
Posts: 340
Joined: 13 Apr 2021 18:04
Location: US

Re: Tactical Defeat of US marines at Iwo Jima?

Post by Linkagain » 12 Oct 2021 16:51

A related link on Iwo Jima
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=259163

Yes the ratio for message 251 if both Iwo Jima and Okinawa casualitys were added together.....Remember these Islands are a part of JAPAN PROPER

Return to “WW2 in the Pacific & Asia”