► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

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tigre
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by tigre » 17 Sep 2016 13:21

Hello to all :D; a brief story..............................................

8.8cm Flak 18 (SFL) auf Zukraftwagen 12t (Sd.Kfz 8).

The concept of Bunkerflak was born in early 1938. In fact, the Heeres (German Army) wanted a weapon that could destroy enemy fortifications. The first version of the bunkerflak or Bufla was originally a Sd.Ah.201 auf Flak 18 modified and equipped with a shield towed by a Gepanzerte (armored) Zugkraftwagen 8 tons (Sd. Kfz 7). However, the Heeres-Waffenamt who oversaw the production of this version of the 88 decided to produce a second type of Bufla. In fact, it consisted of placing a 88 on the platform of a half-track type SdKfz 8 of 12 tons on DB9 chassis produced by Daimler-Benz.

During testing in the range of Kummersdorf on 23 August 1938, an officer of the Luftwaffe explained: "(...) During these tests, the high initial velocity due to the architecture of the piece and the use of piercing projectiles allowed to destroy in 30% of cases the targets between 800 to 900 meters with the first shot. Given these results, we can say that the 88 is not only able to beat small fortifications, but also can destroy a medium or heavy armored vehicle. Instead, it should be noted that the 88 gun modified in this way is no longer able to fight enemy aircraft. " This is the first time that was planned to use the 88 mm as an anti-tank weapon itself.

The first 10 vehicles were delivered during the winter 1938-39. However, these first 10 machines were also the last, in fact, another version of Bufla mounted on the chassis Famo of 18 tons was chosen.

In combat.

The Bufla was a success, were gathered in the 1. Kompanie of s.Pz.Jg.Abt.8, taking part in the Polish campaign in 1939. The commander, Hauptmann Frenzel said: "The machine allowed a good driving and good mobility. Placing the battery was fast and opening fire took only a few tens of seconds after the vehicle stopped. From this point of view, our machines are much better than the 88 mounted on a cruciform gun carriage. The mobility of our machines allowed to provide a good tactical versatility. We could change positions after two or three shots. Among other things, this allowed us not to suffer losses in Poland, the enemy artillery had no time to identify and adjust the shots on us. The infantry much appreciated our work and we are constantly asked to beat the fortifications, resistance nests or armored. In 21 days of fighting, we traveled 6,000 kilometers without having suffered any mechanical problem ".

The battery was reorganized in February 1940, composed now of 6 bufla, the other four were kept in reserve. During the Western campaign the unit provided support to the 1. and 2. Panzer and the company lost 2 Bufla. During Operation Barbarossa operated with the XXXIX AK Mot in front of Heeresgruppe Mitte. On January 29, 1942, it became in the Panzer-Jäger-Kompanie 601. But still lost two other vehicles since 22 June 1941. Finally, it was absorbed by the Panzer-Jäger-Abteilung 559 and became its 2. Kompanie. The latest operating vehicle disappeared at the end of March 1943.

Sources: http://ostfront.forumpro.fr/t267-le-bun ... n-antichar
http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/30074/ ... kerknacker
http://www.ebay.de/itm/L59-Sd-Kfz-7-Gep ... 2236297655

Cheers. Raul M 8-).
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Manuferey
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Re: 88 mm guns on half-track chassis ?

Post by Manuferey » 18 Sep 2016 15:16

Manuferey wrote:After reviewing the various pictures, it appears to me that there were (at least) two distinct models of 8,8 cm Flak on 12 t ZgKw.
Most of the pictures in this thread show a low shield with the top somewhat leveled with the top recuperator of the barrel.
However, a few pictures show a version with a higher shield similar to the shield of the towed version of the Bunkerflak. In this case, it looks like the gun could not move up.
[...]
Emmanuel
I wrote the above text in June 2010. It took me over than 6 years but I think I have finally found the beginning of the answer of my question above concerning distinct models of the Bufla. :D :D :D
After studying numerous pictures of Buflas and associating them with their Wehrmacht plate numbers, it appears that the Bufla, including some if not all the vehicles themselves, went through three levels of modifications/versions which I will call “Ausführung” (Ausf. in short) in the German tradition:

Ausf. A: high shield identical to the towed Bufla gun.
Ausf. B: lower shield similar to the (future) shield of the towed 8,8 cm Flak 18 or 36 gun. Lowering the shield would have shaved off some weight. :idea:
Ausf. C: lower shield as in Ausf. B, box-type cover (with a hinged lid) for the front lights and addition of a bar as a form of bumper.

Based on pictures (from ebay) below, Ausf. B seems to have been in place at the time of the invasion of Poland while Ausf. C was used in the invasion of France on May 10, 1940 as proven by the destroyed Bufla in Chémery near Sedan.

A list of Bufla’s WH numbers is discussed here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... +produced-

Here are a few examples:

WH241021
Top: Ausf. A
Bottom: Ausf. C
Bufla241021.jpg
WH 171976:
Top: Ausf. B – Pologne – Septembre 1939
Bottom: Ausf. C
Bufla171976.jpg
WH 5103:
Top: Ausf. B
Bottom: Ausf. C. Destroyed at Chemery. With the box-type cover with a lid open.
Bufla5103.jpg
WH 53003
Top: Ausf. B
Bottom: Ausf. C
Bufla53003.jpg
Emmanuel
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Varadero
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Varadero » 19 Sep 2016 10:56

from ebay, two more with ID plates
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Luftflotte2
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Luftflotte2 » 21 Sep 2016 01:44

source: ebay.de
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mika1606
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by mika1606 » 21 Sep 2016 08:29

source ebay
Vormarsch Frankreich 8.8 auf SdKfz 8 bei nördl. Sedan.jpg
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Manuferey
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Manuferey » 22 Sep 2016 02:19

tigre wrote:The first 10 vehicles were delivered during the winter 1938-39. However, these first 10 machines were also the last, in fact, another version of Bufla mounted on the chassis Famo of 18 tons was chosen.
[...]
Raul M 8-).
The 8.8 cm Flak 37 auf 18t Zgkw (see thread here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &p=1228289) was not a "Bufla" as such since the gun primary assignment was Flak. The vehicles were issued to a Heeresflak unit, Heeresflakartillerie Abteilung (Sf) 304, in support of the 26. Pz.D. in Italy.

However, Bufla had a younger "sister" in North Africa, Diana, a 7.62 cm gun mounted on a 5 t Zgkw, used by Pz.Abt. 605. See here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3#p1688343
(7,62cm FK36(r) auf PzJ Sfl Zgkw 5ton Diana).

Emmanuel

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Luftflotte2
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Luftflotte2 » 14 Nov 2016 23:42

source: ebay.de
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Luftflotte2
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Luftflotte2 » 15 Nov 2016 01:51

mika1606 wrote:source ebay

Vormarsch Frankreich 8.8 auf SdKfz 8 bei nördl. Sedan.jpg
The reverse from ebay.
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Sturm78
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Sturm78 » 16 Mar 2017 21:46

Hi all,

An image from Ebay:

Sturm78
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dave.p
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by dave.p » 17 May 2017 22:01

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Litauen-SdKfz-mi ... SwXYtY3OX7

I can't load the picture.
I found this via a google image search to network 54. Hope you can find it as well. Perhaps one of you can upload it before it disappears for good.

Michael Kenny
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Michael Kenny » 18 May 2017 00:00

otu8010.jpg
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by carius » 06 Jul 2017 11:24

Image from ebay.de №332268065254
88.jpg
George
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tigre
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by tigre » 11 Jul 2017 02:28

Hello to all :D; sorry for the delay Emmanuel but I meant....................................

8.8 cm Flak 18 (Sfl.) auf Zugkraftwagen 18t (Sd.Kfz. 9) - – variant with 88mm Flak gun for anti-tank duties.
The 8.8 cm Flak 37 auf 18t Zgkw (see thread here: viewtopic.php?f=47&p=1228289) was not a "Bufla" as such since the gun primary assignment was Flak. The vehicles were issued to a Heeresflak unit, Heeresflakartillerie Abteilung (Sf) 304, in support of the 26. Pz.D. in Italy.
See below...........................Eppur si muove - E tuttavia egli ha scudo (And yet it has a shield :lol:)

8.8 cm Flak 18 (Sfl.) auf Zugkraftwagen 18t (Sd.Kfz. 9) - 1940/41.
8.8cm Flak 37 Selbstfahrlafette auf 18 ton Zugkraftwagen - First 14 vehicles were delivered in June and July of 1943

Sources: Operation Barbarossa: the Complete Organisational and Statistical Analysis and Military Simulation. By Nigel Askey

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Manuferey
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by Manuferey » 12 Jul 2017 02:15

tigre wrote: 8.8 cm Flak 18 (Sfl.) auf Zugkraftwagen 18t (Sd.Kfz. 9) - 1940/41.
Sources: Operation Barbarossa: the Complete Organisational and Statistical Analysis and Military Simulation. By Nigel Askey
Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Raul,

This is the first time I hear about a 8.8 cm Flak 18 (Sfl.) auf Zugkraftwagen 18t (Sd.Kfz. 9). :? No mention of it appears in the Panzer Tracts books of Thomas Lenz for instance (No. 12 "Flak Selbsfahrlafetten and Flakpanzer" and "Dreaded Threat - the 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37 in the anti-tank role").

The pictures you have posted are typically attributed to the 1943 model (Flak 37 auf Sd.Kfz. 9) with the distinctive armored wedge-type "nose" in front and the shield different from the Sd.Kfz.8-borne model. See other pictures of that model here:
/viewtopic.php?f=47&p=1228289

The fact that the barrel is the single-piece Rohr Aufbau R.A. 1 model does not make the gun a Flak 18. If Flak 36 and Flak 37 were originally fitted with the multi-piece R.A. 9 barrel, that changed during the course of the war as the R.A. 1 was reintroduced as easier to produce and fitted to all three types, Flak 18, 36 and 37.
8.8onhalf-track.jpg
Emmanuel
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tigre
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Re: ► 88 mm Guns on Half-Tracks

Post by tigre » 12 Jul 2017 21:50

Hello Emmanuel :D; thanks for all that info............interesting, a dark point here. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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