British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

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Typhoon66
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British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Typhoon66 » 11 Jun 2020 21:44

I´m doing some research on british armoured car regiments (ww2 and between the wars), not the vehicles, but the units themselves. In ww2, there must have been about 10 of these regiments (mostly Yeomanry/Cavalry, one or two RAC Regiments). Does maybe anyone know a useful source for this topic (website, better a book)?

Thank you

Wolfgang

Knouterer
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Knouterer » 12 Jun 2020 08:21

This is an interesting book on the subject:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-wor ... oks&sr=1-1

There is also a history of the XII Royal lancers (the only A/C regiment with the BEF) by P.F. Stewart, not in print but available second-hand.

From 1941 on, armoured cars were mostly used by the newly formed Reconnaissance Corps I think. These troops were drawn from the infantry but became part of the RAC in 1944. At the start of the war, it was intended that the Yeomanry would provide divisional cavalry regiments for the reconnaissance role, but in 1940, after the campaign in France, it was decided that (almost) all regiments would be needed for the several new armoured divisions planned, hence the need for a new Reconnaissance Corps.

Picture from Salmon's book:
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EwenS
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by EwenS » 12 Jun 2020 08:46

This might give you a starting point for NWE in 1944/45
http://www.warwheels.net/BritACsInEurope44_45BROWN.html

wwilson
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by wwilson » 12 Jun 2020 10:34

Typhoon66 wrote:
11 Jun 2020 21:44
I´m doing some research on british armoured car regiments (ww2 and between the wars), not the vehicles, but the units themselves. In ww2, there must have been about 10 of these regiments (mostly Yeomanry/Cavalry, one or two RAC Regiments). Does maybe anyone know a useful source for this topic (website, better a book)?

Thank you

Wolfgang
Gary Kennedy's "British Army of World War Two War Establishment Tables Northwest Europe June 1944 - May 1945", volume III, describes the armoured car regiments in NW Europe. He identifies these regiments in 1944-45:

The Inns of Court
1st Household Cavalry Regiment
2nd Household Cavalry Regiment
1st Royal Dragoons
11th Hussars

12th Royal Lancers served in the 1940 campaign, and then in north Africa and Italy.

The Britons here probably have a complete list.

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Sheldrake
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Sheldrake » 12 Jun 2020 17:46

Typhoon66 wrote:
11 Jun 2020 21:44
I´m doing some research on british armoured car regiments (ww2 and between the wars), not the vehicles, but the units themselves. In ww2, there must have been about 10 of these regiments (mostly Yeomanry/Cavalry, one or two RAC Regiments). Does maybe anyone know a useful source for this topic (website, better a book)?

Thank you

Wolfgang
Are you after doctrine, i.e. how the British planned to use armoured car units, or are you interested in the history of the units themselves?

Gary Kennedy
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Gary Kennedy » 12 Jun 2020 19:59

I don't know if there's a single volume that covers all the Armoured Car Regiments. Just identifying who was where and when is a task in itself. Below is the list as I understand it, but is very general, and duplicates some of the above. And I'm bound to miss some out...

BEF 1940

12th Royal Lancers (Prince of Wales's Own)

Middle East (North Africa)

11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own) - mostly as part of 7th Armd Div
12th Lancers (Prince of Wales's Own) - mostly with 1st Armd Div
1st Royal Dragoons - mostly non-Div, spells with 1st and 10th Armd Divs
1st Kings Dragoon Guards - ex 2nd Armd Div, mostly non-Div
Household Cavalry Regiment - spells with 10th Armd Div, also in Cyprus and Syria
2nd Derbyshire Yeomanry - mostly with 8th Armd Div

Italy

1st Royal Dragoons
1st Household Cavalry Regiment
12th Lancers (Prince of Wales's Own)
27th Lancers

Northwest Europe

The Inns of Court Regiment - 1 Corps, later 11th Armd Div
2nd Household Cavalry Regiment - 8 Corps, later Gds Armd Div
1st Royal Dragoons - 12 Corps
11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own) - 30 Corps, later 7th Armd Div
1st Household Cavalry Regiment - arrived from Italy in March 1945

The Recce Regts did not receive their armoured cars (Humbers) until late 1942 into early 1943. Prior to that they used Light Recce Cars and carriers, which were later supplemented by armoured cars.

Gary

Typhoon66
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Typhoon66 » 12 Jun 2020 20:38

Sheldrake wrote:
12 Jun 2020 17:46
Typhoon66 wrote:
11 Jun 2020 21:44
I´m doing some research on british armoured car regiments (ww2 and between the wars), not the vehicles, but the units themselves. In ww2, there must have been about 10 of these regiments (mostly Yeomanry/Cavalry, one or two RAC Regiments). Does maybe anyone know a useful source for this topic (website, better a book)?

Thank you

Wolfgang
Are you after doctrine, i.e. how the British planned to use armoured car units, or are you interested in the history of the units themselves?
Principally in both of these topics
Wolfgang

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 13 Jun 2020 07:57

Have you looked at this site ?

http://www.warwheels.net/
Alan

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Sheldrake
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Sheldrake » 13 Jun 2020 10:04

Typhoon66 wrote:
12 Jun 2020 20:38
Sheldrake wrote:
12 Jun 2020 17:46
Typhoon66 wrote:
11 Jun 2020 21:44
I´m doing some research on british armoured car regiments (ww2 and between the wars), not the vehicles, but the units themselves. In ww2, there must have been about 10 of these regiments (mostly Yeomanry/Cavalry, one or two RAC Regiments). Does maybe anyone know a useful source for this topic (website, better a book)?

Thank you

Wolfgang
Are you after doctrine, i.e. how the British planned to use armoured car units, or are you interested in the history of the units themselves?
Principally in both of these topics
Wolfgang
You might be better off asking this question on a site focused on British and Commonwealth WW2 history. http://ww2talk.com Some of the contributors on that site are WW2 veterans who served in recce units.

There is a good sub forum on the organisation and thinking behind recce units here.
http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/re ... nce.23766/

British military doctrine
Field Service Regulations 1935 are suited to an army with global responsibilities and limited resources. Truppenführung it ain'#t
https://qspace.library.queensu.ca/bitst ... sequence=1
Its high level generalities. The volume on operations has more detail
https://ia802900.us.archive.org/25/item ... 2_1935.pdf


Chapter 1 covers the characteristics and equipment of fighting troops. Pages 2-6 describes armour, cavalry and mounted infantry. As you can see there is still a role for the mounted man in the British Empire. There was a mounted division in Palestine in 1940-41.

Other chapters cover the roles of each arm in different phases of war. The author was AP Wavell who commanded the forces in the Middle East 1940-41.

Pages ix-xii list the training manuals used why the whole army and for each arm. For armoured cars you need to find
The manuals for cavalry are
1. Cavalry Training. The training, leading and employment of cavalry.
2. Ditto (Supplement). The training and tactical handling of armoured cars.
3. Cavalry Section Leading. A guide for non-commissioned officers and troopers as leaders of sections.
In terms of mentality armoured car units are the successors of mounted regiments.

Good luck finding the relevant manuals

Here is a PhD thesis on mechanising the Cavalry
https://wlv.openrepository.com/bitstrea ... sAllowed=y

Typhoon66
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Re: British ww2 Armoured Car Regiments

Post by Typhoon66 » 14 Jun 2020 11:16

Thanks everyone for your contributions and for the useful links. I recently ordered "Everything worked like clockwork" from a US bookseller and I hope it´ll arrive within the nex few weeks.

Wolfgang

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