Warsaw uprising 1944

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lukeo
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Warsaw uprising 1944

Post by lukeo » 01 Aug 2003 08:13

Today. on 1st of August is the 59th annniversary of the beginning of Warsaw Uprising. Let's honor those brave youn men and women that fought with their enemy for 63 days. They fought with unprecedence courage despite the fact they were betrayed by their soviet "allies". They fought alone, and knew, that their beloved city was doomed. Just after the end of the uprising, Wasaw was totally destroyed on personal Hitler's order to set an example for all occupied cities.

Let's honor them!
Last edited by lukeo on 01 Aug 2003 12:51, edited 2 times in total.

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 01 Aug 2003 08:34

They are the Greatest heros. I've seen a French film, "La Bataille de Varsovie". It's a heroic epic. Jeszcze Polska nie zginela. Long live Poland!

Jasen
Last edited by Windward on 02 Aug 2003 04:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Ogorek
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Post by Ogorek » 01 Aug 2003 16:55

Puki My Zyjemi.... "As Long As We Are Alive"

I have had the fortune of knowing men women and children who had fought in various parts of the city, in the disastrous climax of the 2nd Polish Republic’s struggle for survival, and have even attended services on August 1st in Warsaw's Powaski Cemetary.... a truly moving experience.

Thank God that I had not have to experience what my parent's generation had.

Politics aside, pain and humiliation aside, let them continue to bask in the light of the days when it looked as if it might have succeeded, and those who held steadfast through to the bitter end....

There is a film, little known even in Poland, but available on video tape, in Polish only...
“Urodziny mlodego Warszawiaka “ ( http://us.imdb.com/Title?0081697 ), a chilling account of the war years.

Well worth seeing, even if you cannot understand a word...

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PolAntek
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Post by PolAntek » 02 Aug 2003 19:38

Great post Lukeo!

Yes, let's honor them – the fallen heroes. Men, women and children of the Armia Krajowa - who paid the ultimate price in the struggle for freedom and justice will not be forgotten. Nor will the estimated 250,000 Polish civilians who also perished in the uprising. It is heartbreaking for me to think of so many thousands who suffered all those years under the ruthless occupiers only to be slaughtered so near the end of the war.

Thanks Ogorek for the “Urodziny mlodego Warszawiaka “ film info. I will certainly seek it out.

Bog, Honor, i Ojczyzna !

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Ogorek
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Post by Ogorek » 03 Aug 2003 17:16

Antek.....

The film is REALLY REALLY REALLY worth hunting down....

Released during the Solidarity time, it disappeared during Martial Law....

Most of my relatives in Poland never heard of it until they saw when visiting the States.

The combat scenes are first rate, as is the story.... parts of it will haunt you beyond even Wajda.

( BTW - The main character appeared later in Wajda's A LOVE IN GERMANY as the main character )

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 03 Aug 2003 23:55

Bog, Honor, i Ojczyzna !

Please excuse my ignorance but what does the above mean, especially Bog as in English this is a smelly,wet marshy piece of ground.

Andy H

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 04 Aug 2003 01:52

I agree, let's honor them, all the soldiers of the Armia Krajowa. They were very brave and courageous to fight the Germans. The Warsaw Uprising lasted 63 days and it was the longest Polish battle for the sovereignty and independence of the state fought during World War II.

Windward,

I am really interested about the film that you mentionned "La Bataille de Varsovie" Where is it possible to have it?

Regards

Image

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PolAntek
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Post by PolAntek » 04 Aug 2003 02:35

Andy H wrote:Bog, Honor, i Ojczyzna !

Please excuse my ignorance but what does the above mean, especially Bog as in English this is a smelly,wet marshy piece of ground.

Andy H
Andy,

No need to be self-deprecating – not everyone understand Polish! This is an old Polish military phrase that translates as "God, Honour, and Fatherland". The following badge (1st Grenadier Division formed in France 1939 after Poland fell to the Germans and Soviets) uses this phrase. It is also found on other militaria.
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Windward
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Post by Windward » 04 Aug 2003 03:57

Benoit Douville wrote: Windward,

I am really interested about the film that you mentionned "La Bataille de Varsovie" Where is it possible to have it?

Regards
Wow~ J'ai trouvé sa version de DVD le mois dernier dans Beijing, et je sais peu français, ainsi je pourrais ai seulement identifié une telle information: ce film documentaire a été produit par Peter Batty Productions Ltd en 1978, et le travail visuel à côté de Hachette Filipacchi Films 2003. Distribue exclusivement par Paramount Home Entertainment (France). Et son code à barres est 3 357803 071681. Désolé que tellement peu je peut vous aider.

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 04 Aug 2003 17:18

Thanks PolAntek for the translation-indeed Bog, Honor, i Ojczyzna !

Andy H

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AHLF
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Post by AHLF » 13 Aug 2003 19:26

Andy H wrote:Bog, Honor, i Ojczyzna !

Please excuse my ignorance but what does the above mean, especially Bog as in English this is a smelly,wet marshy piece of ground.

Andy H
PolAntek wrote:Andy,

No need to be self-deprecating – not everyone understand Polish! This is an old Polish military phrase that translates as "God, Honour, and Fatherland"...
LOL, you two made my day! :lol:

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Gott
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Post by Gott » 13 Aug 2003 21:43

Windward wrote:Wow~ J'ai trouvé sa version de DVD le mois dernier dans Beijing, et je sais peu français, ainsi je pourrais ai seulement identifié une telle information: ce film documentaire a été produit par Peter Batty Productions Ltd en 1978, et le travail visuel à côté de Hachette Filipacchi Films 2003. Distribue exclusivement par Paramount Home Entertainment (France). Et son code à barres est 3 357803 071681. Désolé que tellement peu je peut vous aider.
Now Windward, since when did you start to speak French?

Indeed these freedom fighters are honourable men and deserve to be honoured. God bless their souls.

White Phosphorus
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Re: Warsaw uprising 1944

Post by White Phosphorus » 14 Aug 2003 18:31

lukeo wrote:They fought with unprecedence courage despite the fact they were betrayed by their soviet "allies".
Let's honor them!
So whenever the Red army screws up, there must be a political motive behind it. If you look at the map of the 44 offensive you will see that the area near warsaw is the most western point of new Soviet lines.

And here's what Glantz had to say about combat in that area.

Operational details about Soviet combat on the approaches to Warsaw can be reconstructed from fragmentary Soviet and German archival sources (see map 15). On 28 July 1994, Maj. Gen. A. I. Radzievsky's 2d Tank Army, which had been turned north from the Magnuszew region to strike at Warsaw, with three corps abreast, engaged German 73d Infantry Division and the Hermann Goering Parachute Panzer Division 40 kilometers southeast of Warsaw. A race ensued between Radzievsky, who was seeking to seize the routes into Warsaw from the east, and the Germans, who were attempting to keep these routes open and maintain possession of Warsaw.33 The nearest Soviet forces within supporting range of Radzievsky were 47th Army and 11th Tank and 2d Guards Cavalry Corps, then fighting for possession of Seidlce, 50 kilometers to the east. On 29 July Radzievsky dispatched his 8th Guards and 3d Tank Corps northward in an attempt to swing northeast of Warsaw and turn the German defender's left flank, while his 16th Tank Corps continued to fight on the southeastern approaches to the city's suburbs.

Although 8th Guards Tank Corps successfully fought to within 20 kilometers east of the city, 3d Tank Corps ran into a series of successive panzer counterattacks orchestrated by Field Marshal W. Model, new commander of Army Group Center. Beginning on 30 July, the Hermann Goering and 19th Panzer Divisions struck the overextended and weakened tank corps north of Wolomin, 15 kilometers northeast of Warsaw. Although the corps withstood three days of counterattacks, on 2 and 3 August, 4th Panzer Division and SS Panzer Division Viking joined the fight. In three days of intense fighting, 3d Tank Corps was severely mauled, and 8th Guards Tank Corps was also severely pressed. By 5 August 47th Army forces had arrived in the region, and 2d Tank Army was withdrawn for rest and refitting. The three rifle corps of 47th Army were now stretched out along a front of 80 kilometers from south of Warsaw to Seidlce and were unable to renew the drive on Warsaw or to the Narew River. German communications lines eastward to Army Group Center, then fighting for its life north and west of Brest, had been damaged but not severed.

Meanwhile, on 1 August the Polish Home Army had launched an insurrection in the city. Although they seized large areas in downtown Warsaw, the insurgents failed to secure the four bridges over the Vistula and were unable to hold the eastern suburbs of the city (Praga). During the ensuing weeks, while the Warsaw uprising progressed and ultimately failed, the Soviets continued their drive against Army Group Center northeast of Warsaw. For whatever motive, 1st Belorussian Front focused on holding firmly to the Magnuszew bridgehead, which was subjected to heavy German counterattacks throughout mid-August, and on driving forward across the Bug River to seize crossings over the Narew River necessary to facilitate future offensive operations.

Soviet 47th Army remained the only major force opposite Warsaw until 20 August, when it was joined by 1st Polish Army. Soviet forces finally broke out across the Bug River on 3 September, closed up to the Narew River the following day, and fought their way into bridgeheads across the Narew on 6 September. On 13 September lead elements of two Polish divisions assaulted across the Vistula River into Warsaw but made little progress and were evacuated back across the river on 23 September.34

Political considerations and motivations aside, an objective consideration of combat in the region indicates that, prior to early September, German resistance was sufficient to halt any Soviet assistance to the Poles in Warsaw, were it intended. Thereafter, it would have required a major reorientation of military efforts from Magnuszew in the south or, more realistically, from the Bug and Narew River axis in the north in order to muster sufficient force to break into Warsaw. And once broken into, Warsaw would have been a costly city to clear of Germans and an unsuitable location from which to launch a new offensive.

Feanor
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Post by Feanor » 14 Aug 2003 21:20

Oh boy, I can already see all the replies that will get.
(ducks for cover/closes and locks hatch). :lol:

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