Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

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LAstry
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Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by LAstry » 18 Mar 2022 14:45

In regard to those Jews and Poles executed in april/May 1943....Ive heard two reports of what happened to the remains:
1} With the exception of the jews killed at Mila 18, that when the Ghetto was Cleared out by the Germans the bodies of those killed were cremated and the remains dumped into the the Jewish graveyard...
2) That postwar when the Area in the Ghetto was rebuilt...the remains were left in destroyed buildings....which were rebuilt on top of them...Now logically wouldnt that make the building foundations unstable?

Are both reports true?




Of interest on 1943 captured Jews in ghetto photograph...
viewtopic.php?f=6&p=2399269#p2399269

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wm
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by wm » 20 Mar 2022 16:19

The Germans filled in all holes and voids with soil and rubble - with the intention of creating a park there.
After the war an additional layer of soil and rubble was put over that.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by gebhk » 21 Mar 2022 12:00

Hi LAstry

Not sure why building on top of destroyed buildings should be more unstanle than otherwise. In cities buildings are routinely demolished to make way for new structures. Surely their stability depends on the quality of the foundations of ther new buildings rather than on whether they are built on brownfiled or greenfield sites?

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wm
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by wm » 21 Mar 2022 21:38

The main problem was the huge maze of (frequently deep) cellars under the buildings.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by gebhk » 22 Mar 2022 10:29

Hi WM

Fair point. While this (ie cellars etc) is normal when building on a Brownfield site, it must have been more complicated in this case. As I recall, hiding places were bullt before the Ghetto Uprising by some dwellers and then much more extensive safes and bunkers were excavated in preparation for and during the uprising. The problem this created was that that such structures rarely if ever found their way onto plans accessible to subsequent builders. And then the German activites, no doubt restricted to simply filling in such holes as were visible superficially, helped to make the remaining cavities more difficult to locate and fill. No doubt that was an issue in much of Poland and not just in the Ghetto, albeit i suspect unexploded ordnance was and remains to this day, a far bigger issue.

Unfortunateoly this does not answer LAstry's main question. As a generality, Poland's apalling history, before during and after WW2, makes excavation of human remains an ever-present possibility when undertaking construction - both greenfield and brownfield. This undoubtedly affects the Getto area as much as or more so than anywhere else in Poland. Undoubtedly the presence of mass graves, located with scant or any regard for environmental consequences, has an impact on the environment, albeit this creates chemical pollution problems (with contamination of water being the main health hazard) rather than construction ones (see Żychowski J. Wpływ masowych grobów z I i II wojny światowej na środowisko przyrodnicze [The impact of mass graves from the 1st and 2nd World Wars on the natural environment]. Krakow: Wydawnictwo Naukowe; 2008)

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Orlov
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by Orlov » 24 Mar 2022 10:48

LAstry wrote:
18 Mar 2022 14:45
In regard to those Jews and Poles executed in april/May 1943....Ive heard two reports of what happened to the remains:
1} With the exception of the jews killed at Mila 18, that when the Ghetto was Cleared out by the Germans the bodies of those killed were cremated and the remains dumped into the the Jewish graveyard...
2) That postwar when the Area in the Ghetto was rebuilt...the remains were left in destroyed buildings....which were rebuilt on top of them...Now logically wouldnt that make the building foundations unstable?
viewtopic.php?f=6&p=2399269#p2399269
Dear LAstry,
Just yesterday my friend participated in a workshop at the Polin Museum. One of the participants wrote that her father told about the plague of cockroaches after the war in Muranow.
The walls of the buildings built in this cemetery are cracking. I would not like to live there.
I would like to add info that the so-called Anielewicz bunker at Mila St. 18 was in fact the property of the king of thieves in the Warsaw ghetto - Shmul Asher
https://new.getto.pl/en/Osoby/A/Aszer-Szmul-Nieznane2

LAstry
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by LAstry » 25 Mar 2022 13:42

about a year ago the remains of a Unknown Jewish person were found in the Warsaw Ghetto site...
Incidently the Warsaw Uprsing of 1944 were the remains of Polish persons killed....cremated or buried within the City of Warsaw as well?

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Orlov
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by Orlov » 25 Mar 2022 14:50

LAstry wrote:
25 Mar 2022 13:42
Incidently the Warsaw Uprsing of 1944 were the remains of Polish persons killed....cremated or buried within the City of Warsaw as well?
Provisional cremations included up to 15,000 victims of mass shootings in the "Wola Slaughter", 6,000-10,000 victims of the "Srodmiescie Slaughter" in the first days of August 1944 and several thousand victims of SK 7a in Pfeiffer's tannery. Later, the sub-Einsatzkommandos carried out small local cremations throughout Warsaw.
PS: Please remember that it is a fiction that 100,000 Poles are murdered in KZ Warschau, which was a subcamp of KZ Lublin, created for Jewish slaves forced to demolish the remains of the Warsaw ghetto. This myth is popularized by the so-called "sect of judge Trzcinska" - this was refuted by prof. Boguslaw Kopka in the academical monograph KZ Warschau and a report by Zygmunt Walkowski based on aerial photographs of occupied Warsaw.

LAstry
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by LAstry » 27 Mar 2022 19:29

Were the ashes of those killed 1944...buried in Polish Cemeteries....or skattered to the winds?

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Orlov
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Query on those killed....

Post by Orlov » 27 Mar 2022 20:57

LAstry wrote:
27 Mar 2022 19:29
Were the ashes of those killed 1944...buried in Polish Cemeteries....or skattered to the winds?
Dear LAstry,
Those Jews who were deported to KZ Treblinka - ended up there and died. There has never been a custom of Jewish burials in cemeteries - as you said Polish cemeteries - that is, Catholic or Orthodox or Protestant - unless of people who converted from Judaism to Christian faith.
It was not a coincidence that I mentioned the cemetery - those who were hiding in the bunkers in the ghetto area - either died there or passed unnoticed to the "Aryan side" of occupied Warsaw. Either they encountered honest Poles from Żegota or anti-Semitic "shmalcovniks".
Look for more:
Secret_City_(book).jpg
PS: Remember also about "Pinkertovtsy" - the company that buried Jews in the Jewish cemetery in Warsaw to the time of Ghetto exist. What they made for a fortune that partially paid off to Polish communists (they paid over 1,000,000 zlotys in golden teeth and other valuables to the future leader of communist Poland - Władysław Gomułka - during the war he was the secretary (chief) of communists in occupied Warsaw), who helped them briefly, until when the Germans did not murder them near Warsaw.
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