Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by Futurist » 08 Jan 2021 01:04

ljadw wrote:
07 Jan 2021 18:50
and as a capitalist country that had annexed a part of Russia .
Especially one that was populated largely by Eastern Slavs!

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by Futurist » 08 Jan 2021 01:06

wm wrote:
07 Jan 2021 11:40
Although Hitler didn't attack Poland because of Germans, only because Poland was an obstacle to his plans.
But without Germans, it would be harder to sell such a war to the German people, no?
Poland wasn't Stalin's enemy unless in the sense all capitalist countries were his and the USSR's enemies.
Well, Stalin appears to have been really hardcore in viewing Poles as potential subversives since he apparently murdered over 111,000 of them in the purges of 1937-1938! :(

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by wm » 08 Jan 2021 05:54

The Poles were the most nationalistic people in his empire and in that part of Europe (The Poles have their nationality tattooed on their bodies - Himmler). And it was a modern and advanced nationalism, based on culture, religion, and national revolutionary tradition.
Stalin and Hitler actually killed Poles for the same reasons.

Without Germans, Hitler would have to manufacture a few more Gleiwitz incidents.

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by ljadw » 08 Jan 2021 07:30

Futurist wrote:
08 Jan 2021 01:06
wm wrote:
07 Jan 2021 11:40
Although Hitler didn't attack Poland because of Germans, only because Poland was an obstacle to his plans.
But without Germans, it would be harder to sell such a war to the German people, no?
Poland wasn't Stalin's enemy unless in the sense all capitalist countries were his and the USSR's enemies.
Well, Stalin appears to have been really hardcore in viewing Poles as potential subversives since he apparently murdered over 111,000 of them in the purges of 1937-1938! :(
1 This figure is much exaggerated :Snyder is not very reliable , besides : he talks about 55000, other sources about 85000
2 Stalin murdered also Fins and other foreigners .
3 The '' Poles '' (I assume they had the Soviet nationality ) were not murdered because they were Poles,but because they had ties with the foreign capitalist world .

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by ljadw » 08 Jan 2021 07:41

Futurist wrote:
05 Jan 2021 21:56
gebhk wrote:
05 Jan 2021 18:24
In 1939 the goal of the proposed alliance was to prevent war not to save Poland.
Yerrrs. God forbid anyone would think me a cynic, but I rather think the proposers of the alliance weren't interested in preventing a war, just trying to prevent the war they got - on both sides. Just as Stalin was hoping Adi and the Franco-British would exhaust themselves kicking the snot out of each other, leaving the field open to him, so the French and British were hoping Adi would do the same with the Soviets instead. Needless to say no-one gave a sheep's withit for what happened to Poland.
If Britain and France wanted the Nazis and Soviets to fight it out with each other, wouldn't it have been more prudent for them NOT to give guarantees to Poland in the first place, though?
The guarantees had domestic aims and had no influence on the French/British DoW on Germany .

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by wm » 08 Jan 2021 09:47

The source is:
Петров, Никита; Рогинский, Арсений (1997). "Польская операция НКВД 1937–1938 гг." [The Polish operation of the NKVD, 1937–1938]
itself based on Soviet archives, not Snyder.

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Re: Do you think Poland would've been more inclined to accept Russian aid in 1939 if Russia would've been non-Communist?

Post by Futurist » 09 Jan 2021 02:42

wm, can you read Russian fluently?

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