Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War. Hosted by Piotr Kapuscinski.
Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 20 Sep 2020 20:07

Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere--specifically in the territories that were already Polish before 1939 but which Poland also managed to keep after 1945?

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 7463
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by wm » 20 Sep 2020 20:55

Of course they preferred the "non-Recovered Territories," the expectation was the Germans would return and kick everybody back they came from.
They finally started to believe it would end well at the end of the sixties.

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 20 Sep 2020 21:09

wm wrote:
20 Sep 2020 20:55
Of course they preferred the "non-Recovered Territories," the expectation was the Germans would return and kick everybody back they came from.
But wouldn't the Soviet Union, the US, Britain, France, and Italy prevent that from happening, though?
They finally started to believe it would end well at the end of the sixties.
What made them change their minds in regards to this?

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 7463
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by wm » 20 Sep 2020 21:19

A new generation arrived, it generally takes 20 years for such a change.
It wasn't much different when serfdom was abolished, it took 20 years till they believed in it and changed their ways.

The US, Britain, France, and Italy were with Germany against the USSR.

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 20 Sep 2020 22:12

wm wrote:
20 Sep 2020 21:19
A new generation arrived, it generally takes 20 years for such a change.
It wasn't much different when serfdom was abolished, it took 20 years till they believed in it and changed their ways.
Interesting.
The US, Britain, France, and Italy were with Germany against the USSR.
They were with Germany in regards to protecting Europe from Communist aggression and Communist revolution, Yes, but this doesn't mean that they would have actually been willing to allow Germany to revise its borders by force--including its Eastern borders, and especially if Germany rather than the Communist bloc would have been the aggressor in this war. To side with an aggressive revanchist Germany so soon after 1939 was just not going to happen on the Western Allies' part. Period.

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 20 Sep 2020 22:45

IMHO, the only chance that Germany actually had to secure Western support of territorial revision after World War II would have been either if the Soviet Union and Poland would have agreed to it (which would have never happened) or if the Western Allies would have defeated the Communist bloc in a war that the Communist bloc (as opposed to the Western Allies) would have started and been the initial aggressor in.

gebhk
Member
Posts: 2136
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by gebhk » 21 Sep 2020 10:02

It wasn't much different when serfdom was abolished, it took 20 years till they believed in it and changed their ways.
And then some. I recall talking with a farming family, otherwise intelligent people, in the UK in the 1970's (1974?). They were complaining about the things the Tory government did, was doing, would do in the future, their hair styles, you name it. When someone suggested they should vote Labour, the response was: "Ooh, the squire wouldn't like that". This is over a 100 years after the ballot was made secret in the UK, I would point out......
IMHO, the only chance that Germany actually had to secure Western support of territorial revision after World War II would have been either if the Soviet Union and Poland would have agreed to it (which would have never happened
Errm, I would suggest the Western Allies did not come into this at all and Poland had little say in the matter. It all depended on the will of the USSR to whom East Germany was more important (it was on the border of the Empire) and was considered the more reliable vassal. There is, think little doubt that the USSR held this card as a useful tool to help keep Poland in line and threats, veiled or otherwise, were made. There were significant periods when the East German spy services treated and were permitted to treat Poland as an 'enemy country'. Concern was therefore not entirely unfounded and was certainly actively fuelled.

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 7463
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by wm » 21 Sep 2020 19:02

Futurist wrote:
20 Sep 2020 22:12
They were with Germany in regards to protecting Europe from Communist aggression and Communist revolution, Yes, but this doesn't mean that they would have actually been willing to allow Germany to revise its borders by force--including its Eastern borders, and especially if Germany rather than the Communist bloc would have been the aggressor in this war. To side with an aggressive revanchist Germany so soon after 1939 was just not going to happen on the Western Allies' part. Period.
Such a political analysis was above everyday folks political competence, and the communists spread FUD by tons about bad German revanchists that only they, the communists were able to hold in check.
Last edited by wm on 21 Sep 2020 20:17, edited 1 time in total.

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 21 Sep 2020 20:09

What is FUD?

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 21 Sep 2020 20:26

By the way, Poland's Communist government presumably didn't actually want to scare Poles badly enough that they would refuse to settle in the Recovered Territories; after all, settling the Recovered Territories was viewed as a type of Manifest Destiny-style moment for Poland--as in, something that must be done. So, it did want these territories settled, but it also presumably wanted to make it crystal clear to the Poles--as you said--that it is quite literally the only Polish government who would actually be able to permanently hold onto these newly gained Polish territories.

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 7463
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by wm » 21 Sep 2020 20:47

The government settled them first and liked to frighten them later - after West Germany was established.

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 21 Sep 2020 20:58

When did Poles stop moving into the Recovered Territories?

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 7463
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by wm » 21 Sep 2020 22:10

1946.

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 21 Sep 2020 22:21

What caused them to stop?

Futurist
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 24 Dec 2015 00:02
Location: SoCal

Re: Did Kresy Poles prefer to be resettled in the Recovered Territories or did they prefer to be resettled elsewhere?

Post by Futurist » 21 Sep 2020 23:43

gebhk wrote:
21 Sep 2020 10:02
It wasn't much different when serfdom was abolished, it took 20 years till they believed in it and changed their ways.
And then some. I recall talking with a farming family, otherwise intelligent people, in the UK in the 1970's (1974?). They were complaining about the things the Tory government did, was doing, would do in the future, their hair styles, you name it. When someone suggested they should vote Labour, the response was: "Ooh, the squire wouldn't like that". This is over a 100 years after the ballot was made secret in the UK, I would point out......
IMHO, the only chance that Germany actually had to secure Western support of territorial revision after World War II would have been either if the Soviet Union and Poland would have agreed to it (which would have never happened
Errm, I would suggest the Western Allies did not come into this at all and Poland had little say in the matter. It all depended on the will of the USSR to whom East Germany was more important (it was on the border of the Empire) and was considered the more reliable vassal. There is, think little doubt that the USSR held this card as a useful tool to help keep Poland in line and threats, veiled or otherwise, were made. There were significant periods when the East German spy services treated and were permitted to treat Poland as an 'enemy country'. Concern was therefore not entirely unfounded and was certainly actively fuelled.
The risk of Ostdeutschland is that it could always be absorbed back into Westdeutschland, so any concessions that the Soviet Union will make towards it could eventually end up benefitting Westdeutschland.

Return to “Poland 1919-1945”