Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

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wm
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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by wm » 15 Jul 2020 20:58

Please that's ignorant.
Łódź was annexed by Germany, the Poles (largely) expelled, the Jews ghettoized. There were any Blue Police there.

And the Blue Police wasn't Polish anyway.

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by history1 » 16 Jul 2020 06:33

wm wrote:
15 Jul 2020 20:58
Please that's ignorant.
Łódź was annexed by Germany, the Poles (largely) expelled [...]
And around Auschwitz the Interessensgebiet Auschitz with several km2 was located and though Poles did live and work there, even in the camp complex itself. And so did the Polish underground sneek around without problems.
Happened all in the land occupied by Nazi Germany.
wm wrote:
15 Jul 2020 20:58
And the Blue Police wasn't Polish anyway.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Po krótkim okresie zarządu wojskowego i rozwiązaniu straży obywatelskich utworzonych w wielu miastach we wrześniu 1939 r. rozkazem Wyższego Dowódcy SS i Policji z 30 października 1939 r. powołano do służby wszystkich funkcjonariuszy Policji Państwowej znajdujących się na obszarze Generalnego Gubernatorstwa, utworzonego 26 października 1939 r. Źródłem zaś pierwszych uzupełnień stali się policjanci wysiedleni z ziem wcielonych do Rzeszy, ewentualnie tam aresztowani i deportowani do GG. [...]. Policja ta, zwana zarówno przez okupantów, jak i we własnej dokumentacji oraz w wewnętrznym obiegu korespondencji organizacji podziemnych Policją Polską (Polnische Polizei) - PP (skrót pozostał ten sam), przez społeczeństwo zaś - zarówno wtedy, jak i po wojnie, również w literaturze przedmiotu - była powszechnie nazywana policją granatową, od niezmienionego koloru i kroju mundurów, pozbawionych emblematów państwowych. [...] Oba więc terminy: Policja Polska i policja granatowa występowały równolegle. Policja ta była kontynuacją przedwojennej Policji Państwowej w sensie organizacyjnym (te same urzędy i budynki) oraz kadrowym, a także pod względem formalnoprawnym. Pozostały przedwojenne regulaminy i przepisy służbowe

After a short period of military administration and the dissolution of civic guards created in many cities in September 1939, by order of the Supreme SS and Police Commander of October 30th 1939, all officers of the [Polish] State Police located in the General Governorate, established on October 26, 1939, were appointed to service. The source of the first additions were police displaced from the lands annexed to the Reich, possibly arrested and deported to the General Government . [...].
This police, called by both occupiers as well as in its own documentation and in the internal circulation of correspondence of underground organizations with the Polish Police (Polnische Polizei) - PP (the abbreviation remained the same), and by society - both then and after the war, also in the literature on the subject - was commonly called the navy blue police, from the unchanged color and cut of uniforms, without state emblems.
[...] . So both state: Polish Police and Navy Blue Police appeared in parallel. This police was a continuation of the pre-war State Police in the organizational sense (the same offices and buildings) and staff, as well as in formal and legal terms. Pre-war regulations and service regulations remained
Sorce: Marek Getter (1996): Polish Police in the General Government 1939-1945, publisher: Police Review nr 1-2, Publisher: Police Academy in Szczytno.
@ https://web.archive.org/web/20131005083 ... w-Szczytni

Marek Getter was a renowned historian with the Tadeusz Manteuffel Institute of History - Polish Academy of Sciences in Warsaw.
https://ihpan.edu.pl/zmarli/marek-getter-1930-2013/

It´s obvious that those Poles serving in the Polish Blue Police = Navy Blue Police were pre-WWII Polish police -men. Without doubt they didn´t come from the moon (you seem to favor PiS-slang) but from land which was Poland before. And you´re trying to fool the world with PiS-propaganda? Try again.

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by wm » 16 Jul 2020 11:47

The Police were created and controlled by the Germans and nobody else.
The Polish Government in Exile had nothing to do with it - and no Polish political party, group, or movement had either. They didn't represent the Polish Republic or any of her interests. The Poles largerly hated them.

Like the Jewish Police and all the German security forces, many of the policemen turned to crime, bribery, and extorsions to supplement their income (the Nazis called it the Polish disease).
The reason was crime paid very nicely during the occupation; it wasn't uncommon to meet an escaped from the Warsaw Ghetto Jewish policeman with a kilogram of gold in his rucksack.

The pedophile Malka Leifer was motivated by her dirty desires but not by her Jewishness - similarly, they were motivated by greed not by their Polish roots.

In this case, "Polish" (as in Polish death camps) is a weasel word that hides the truth. And using "Polish" instead "Blue" is an act of racism against the Polish nation, history, culture.

Having said that, the role of the Blue Police was actually somewhat positive too. The protected the population quite well from the rampant common banditry and crime, at least till 1943 when it all went to hell in a handbasket.
Many of the sacrificed their lives in the process.

A monument dedicated to Blue Policemen killed by bandits, erected by locals they were protecting:
Image

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by Futurist » 17 Jul 2020 22:14

wm wrote:
16 Jul 2020 11:47
The pedophile Malka Leifer was motivated by her dirty desires but not by her Jewishness - similarly, they were motivated by greed not by their Polish roots.
A bit off-topic, but I wonder if Malka Leifer would have still molested children if she would have had access to things such as child sex dolls and/or child sex robots (as in, if these things would have actually been both legal and accessible to her). Thoughts?

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by wm » 17 Jul 2020 22:26

Why don't you ask her directly? She's still alive...

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by Futurist » 17 Jul 2020 22:38

I don't have her e-mail and in any case I'm unsure about the wisdom of speaking with her directly.

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by Futurist » 09 Sep 2020 03:48

Interestingly enough, here is one Jew who survived as a result of Rumkowski's immoral dealings and stalling for time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_Kristal

He got sent to Auschwitz in August 1944 and was emaciated, extremely thin (literally wafer-thin, in fact), and near-death when he was liberated by the Red Army in January 1945. Had the Lodz Ghetto been liquidated earlier and Israel Kristal would have ended up spending even more time at Auschwitz than he spent in real life, he almost certainly would have died from starvation. :( So, ironically, Mr. Rumkowski's actions indirectly saved Mr. Kristal, who eventually proceeded to become the world's oldest living man before finally dying in August 2017 just one month short of his 114th birthday.

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by Linkagain » 12 May 2021 15:03

A related link of Interest
viewtopic.php?t=184008

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by LAstry » 13 Feb 2022 20:24

There is an old Jewish saying "Give Someone a little bit of power ..see how they would turn out"

"King Chaim" actions in the Ghetto speak of how well he "ran" the Ghetto:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Rumkowski

If he thought being useful he would be saved by the Nazis..he was half right..he was "saved" by the Nazis on the Last train to Auschwitz in August 1944.....as for King Chiams Ghetto saving Jews....In 1940 the Ghetto had 163,777 residents Plus an additional 40,000 Jews..A total of 210,000 Jews passed through it;[4] but only 877 remained hidden when the Soviets arrived. ,,,, In September 1943 Himmler ordered Greiser to get ready for a mass relocation of labour to the Nazi District of Lublin. Max Horn from the Ostindustrie arrived and made an assessment, which was damning.[36] The ghetto was too large in his opinion, badly managed, not profitable, and it had the wrong products. From his perspective the presence of children was unacceptable.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81%C3 ... %BA_Ghetto

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Re: Thoughts on Chaim Rumkowski (the head of the Lodz Ghetto during WWII)?

Post by LAstry » 20 Feb 2022 17:49

Link of Interest on the Lodz Ghetto and King Chaim
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=36788&hilit=King+Chaim

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