31 August 1939: Poles preempt

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Post by Serus » 03 Jun 2005 00:49

Baltasar wrote:
Serus wrote: No offence - but knoweldge of the fact that Poland did sign the Treaty of Versailles is rather basic if one wants to discuss history of 1918-1939 in Europe (polish history included).
To your information - Poland signed the treaty. Some nice photos of the treaty with signatures:
http://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/places/c ... 9_1919.jpg
2nd ant 3rd signature - I. Paderewski and Roman Dmowski. :)
Possibly in Poland, but the dictate of Versailles is a rather unpleasent part in German history and possibly in the Frensh and British history also. We learn more about the contents rather than who signed it.
Sorry but i must disagree - how one can understand european politics in interwar era without the basic knoweldge - which european countries signed (or didnt) Treaty of Versailles. We are not talking about Urugway here (who signed the treaty too btw...). The treaty was after all the foundation of european order for 20 years. The contents and the fact of being "pleasant" or "unpleasant" have nothing to do - or you are implying that one should learn only "pleasant" parts of history... My post with the link was an answer to this post:
I'm not sure whether or not Poland signed the treaty of Versailles. If not, I don't see how they could justify declaring war on Germany when they didn't sign it.
Im sorry for off topic - ill abandon it from now.

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Post by Baltasar » 03 Jun 2005 13:39

The international interwar politics aren't really a topic in German schools, since the rise of Hitler makes up most stuff we're being taught here. If any, the British, Frensh, Japanese and American politics are the only ones mentioned. I think this is mainly because there were so many important events in that time that other parts of history in this timeframe isn't covered. Eg I only remember that Poland was founded after WWI and was invaded in '39. I don't remember anything from there in between these dates. Of course the Polish schools will teach a much more Polish history and a lot less German history.

However, as I'm mainly interested in campagins etc, I'm not really into politics and as such can't agree that knowing who signed the Dictate of Versailles is basic knowledge as it's rarely important. In this case, Poland might even have a reason to declare war on Germany in 35, but if not even Britain and France did so, this would seem very dubious, as if Poland would want to capture more land. I really doubt Poland would fight over Versailles with Germany, even if their chances were very good and then I doubt Britain would sit idle while Poland was at it. France had no reason to do something for Germany, but Britain already saw that the terms of the dictate were a lot too harsh.

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Re: 31 August 1939: Poles preempt

Post by Von Schadewald » 06 Jan 2022 14:18

When the Poles actually did invade Germany in 1939!


Shows what a preemption could have achieved.

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Re: 31 August 1939: Poles preempt

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 04 Feb 2022 20:00

Just a few years ago I did a brief study on what the Poles could have done with a preemptive air strike against the Luftwaffe. The short answer was 'not much'. The model was a massed strike starting a few hours before the German attack begins. To pull this off the Poles would have to do some intensive training in night flying, navigation, and targeting. A complex sequence involving pathfinders or first wave bombers dropping incendiaries and parachute flares was required. Against the massed German aircraft assembling for launch this could have some utility, at a small scale. Given the low numbers of Polish bombers & the impracticality of more than one night sortie means even if each bomber sortie destroys two German aircraft The gross loss to the Luftwaffe would be maybe 15%. But, probably closer to 8%. Best case is the disruption effectively sets back the German air offensive schedule a day. If the Poles pulled this off it would have been really spectacular, but of no significant operational effect.

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Re: 31 August 1939: Poles preempt

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Feb 2022 18:33

...conversely the French did have a large bomber force in 1939, even if dominated by older models. Six months preparation might give them a useful preemptive strike capability. The low numbers of German aircraft in the west 1September 1939 has its effect in this. The alternate date would be just before the Launch of the May offensive, either triggered by information on the German offensive, or just by the growing concentration of German aircraft in strike distance of the frontier.

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