Japanese carry out their own Doolittle Raid & bomb Washington DC

[glenn239]

What is your brother talking about when he says that "the Betty was really light"? Is he talking about its empty weight? (Francillon puts the empty weight of the G4M1 at 6800 kg (about 15,000 lb). Osamu Tagaya puts it at 7000 kg.)

I can ask, but what I assume is that the Betty was 15,000 lbs (empty) on 3,060 horsepower while the B-25B's used on the Doolittle Raid were 19,480lbs (empty) on 2,700lbs horsepower. Betty had a better horsepower to weight ratio. (The B-25C had upgraded engines but I checked Wiki, and the B model was used).

And this brings up a serious problem in IJN bomber design philosophy in WW2. The Betty was actually a honey of a bomber in potential if they'd armored it properly and forgotten about trying to eek every ounce of long range out of it.

Also, the question is not whether or not a G4M1 could take off from a carrier with "a reasonable fuel and bomb load". The "what if" proposes that each G4M1 would carry a full load of fuel and bombs, and Francillon puts its loaded weight at 9500 kg (about 21,000 lb). The G4M1 could not be lightened by removing armour, since it had none, so probably the only way to lighten it would be to remove some or all of the defensive armament plus the associated gunners and ammo.

Dunno about the full-up weight issue. I don't think the OP's proposal can work because the IJN isn't sailing a carrier that close to the West Coast.

[Cantankerous]

What is your brother talking about when he says that "the Betty was really light"? Is he talking about its empty weight? (Francillon puts the empty weight of the G4M1 at 6800 kg (about 15,000 lb). Osamu Tagaya puts it at 7000 kg.)

I can ask, but what I assume is that the Betty was 15,000 lbs (empty) on 3,060 horsepower while the B-25B's used on the Doolittle Raid were 19,480lbs (empty) on 2,700lbs horsepower. Betty had a better horsepower to weight ratio. (The B-25C had upgraded engines but I checked Wiki, and the B model was used).

And this brings up a serious problem in IJN bomber design philosophy in WW2. The Betty was actually a honey of a bomber in potential if they'd armored it properly and forgotten about trying to eek every ounce of long range out of it.

Also, the question is not whether or not a G4M1 could take off from a carrier with "a reasonable fuel and bomb load". The "what if" proposes that each G4M1 would carry a full load of fuel and bombs, and Francillon puts its loaded weight at 9500 kg (about 21,000 lb). The G4M1 could not be lightened by removing armour, since it had none, so probably the only way to lighten it would be to remove some or all of the defensive armament plus the associated gunners and ammo.

Dunno about the full-up weight issue. I don't think the OP's proposal can work because the IJN isn't sailing a carrier that close to the West Coast.

Even if stripped of unnecessary equipment, the G4M would not have had the range to attack Washington DC and only would have had enough range to hit Beijing or any cities in eastern Australia.

[Carl Schwamberger]

... I can ask, but what I assume is that the Betty was 15,000 lbs (empty) on 3,060 horsepower while the B-25B's used on the Doolittle Raid were 19,480lbs (empty) on 2,700lbs horsepower. Betty had a better horsepower to weight ratio. (The B-25C had upgraded engines but I checked Wiki, and the B model was used).

In his bio Dolittle makes the point he & his engineers spent a lot of time detuning the engines to squeeze the maximum range out. When flown from the Hornet the motors were far from factory spec settings. I'm wondering the Japanese would do the same in this hypothetical effort?

[glenn239]

In his bio Dolittle makes the point he & his engineers spent a lot of time detuning the engines to squeeze the maximum range out. When flown from the Hornet the motors were far from factory spec settings. I'm wondering the Japanese would do the same in this hypothetical effort?

Good question. Japanese staff planning was all over the map in WW2.

[Carl Schwamberger]

It's more of a engineering thing. Much of that came from Dolittes education in air engineering and time in the fuel industry.

[OpanaPointer]

The hypothetical raid would have to bypass several airdromes, if they were lucky. Getting past Chicago would have been ... fun.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Lost over the midwest they bomb Peoria as the fuel runs out.

[OpanaPointer]

Lost over the midwest they bomb Peoria as the fuel runs out.

We retaliate by bombing Sheboygan.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Or Dayton.