No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 09 May 2020 21:49

T. A. Gardner wrote:
09 May 2020 17:57
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
09 May 2020 17:48
A close look at the existing Federal highways system initiated in the 1920s & state of local development shows highway design in the US was headed in the same direction. The obstacle was not concept or engineering but a fiscally conservative federal legislature that was allergic to infrastructure spending. Ike was not part of that crowd. His contribution was the socialist (communist?) idea that the Federal government ought to fund programs that benefitted the nation in general. In this he was backed by the automobile industry, who as in the 1920s lobbied strongly for spending on road improvement. Truman may very well have responded the same way to the automotive/highway lobby. A Taft presidency may have left us with a witches brew of 48 state highway programs following incompatible routes and built to uneven standards.
Actually, Eisenhower sold the interstate highway system as a defense need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_A ... ct_of_1956

That made building these highways a matter of national defense, not just some federal infrastructure program. That was much easier to sell to Congress at the time.
The Wiki article is part myth & short on substance. 'Modernizing' the current Federal highway standards was officially initiated 1939, but underfunded until the 1950s.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/interstatemyths.cfm
Prior to that projects like the Lincoln Highway were being sold as projects that would "open up the country" to motor vehicle travel and a hard sell due to the cost with little visible return.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_ ... ln_Highway
The Lincoln Highway initiated in 1913 was one of the precursors to the larger network of Federally planned & financed highways. The emergence of that system was gradual, with the establishment of a coherent numbering system circa 1925 marking the steady emergence of a organized system of national roads.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/highwayhistory/us1.cfm

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

Post by T. A. Gardner » 09 May 2020 21:56

Of course, Wiki isn't the best source. I posted it simply because it's a quick one that makes a good starting point to find out more.

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Re: No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 10 May 2020 01:27

Diverging into a discussion of sources still leaves us with the point the US was headed towards a high speed/capacity highway system with or without German technology.

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Re: No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

Post by EKB » 10 May 2020 06:01

I've never driven on Germany's Autobahn but, it's my understanding that curves in the road are banked like a racetrack.

I've driven through banked turns on U.S. bridges, ramps and tunnels. But I can't remember the last time I saw a banked curve on open roads. I have a 2017 Honda Accord Coupe with a 6-speed manual and lowered suspension. The car is dropped 1.5 inches and handles nicely in sharp curves, with no body roll. Going fast on the Autobahn is on my bucket list. :thumbsup:

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Re: No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 31 May 2020 04:46

EKB wrote:
10 May 2020 06:01
I've driven through banked turns on U.S. bridges, ramps and tunnels. But I can't remember the last time I saw a banked curve on open roads. ...
The banks are there, but not a lot of them on the interstates. Most of those were laid out to avoid tight curves requiring banks. State Road 25 between lafayette & Logansport is a example pf a road with banked curves, shallow banks. & a small number of moderate banks. Its all curves with a handful of straightaways, none reaching three kilometers. Unfortunately there are also 19 bridges on this stretch, all of which have ice in any combination of cold and wet.

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Re: No German scientists/technology for the Wallies - impact on the Cold War?

Post by T. A. Gardner » 02 Jun 2020 05:05

Getting back to the topic at hand, take a project like Bumblebee. This was a USN project to develop a long-range SAM to engage bombers before they could launch guided weapons like the Hs 293 or a Fritz X on ships.
The US started this project in July 1944 and by July 1945 were testing supersonic ramjet missiles without guidance to get the best missile design. They were concurrently developing better solid fuel boosters--using solid rocket fuels well in advance of anything the Germans had along with better cross section design of the propellant to give a more even burn rate and thrust. They also had a dedicated program to produce a viable guidance system. Thousands of engineers, scientists, technicians, and workers were involved in this one program. It almost on its own dwarfs the whole German Peenemunde program. A supersonic wind tunnel and whole engineering and scientific site was built from scratch in Texas. Firing sites for test missiles were built in New Jersey and North Carolina. Several major aircraft manufacturers were involved in the airframes. Other major research and production was carried out by universities and corporations across the US.
The whole of this program makes the whole German SAM program look almost like an amateurish joke. Worse for the German technological superiority myth was that it was only one of many such SAM programs the US was moving forward on. There was GAPA, NIKE, and several others that were interim programs to get something in service quickly even if it was marginal to fill the gap until a proper weapon came available.
For example, the USN had the KAN Little Joe missile program going. It's a rough equivalent of Enzian. It was intended as a quick stop-gap missile not as an end product.

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