Speculative What-if fight: Poland v. Soviet Union 1937

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: Speculative What-if fight: Poland v. Soviet Union 1937

Post by James A Pratt III » 13 Mar 2023 21:38

End of 1939 3 Japanese generals:
General 1: Our build up in Manchuria is going fairly well but, based on the war in Europe we are still short of tanks, artillery, trucks ect. We also need time to train our newly formed tank and motorized divisions into armies.
General 2: I say we should strike next spring . The Russian army has morale problems and many of their men are deserting.
General 3: We still don't know how the war in Europe will turn out. we don't want to take on the Russians alone. Their armies in Siberia are having problems but they are still larger then our army in Manchuria and have more and better tanks and artillery.
General 1: We have ordered over 1000 new Canadian 3 ton trucks as well more of their 3/4 ton trucks and are using their technology to improve our vehicles.
General 2: Don't the Canadians suspect what we are using them for?
General 1: They don't we keep a few around Tokyo and other big cities are once and a while drive one past their embassy and other places where they can see them. The rest are in Manchuria with "mining Companies" ect. We do have a problem is the civilians and navy want more of them!
General 3: we are also in the process of buying new and used Canadian and US trucks and cars as well as spare parts. Hopefully the civilians and navy will be happy with them.
General 2: I never thought I would see the day when our army would be in the used truck and car business!
General 1: We are also buying more US and Canadian horses.
General 2: Yes I have seen and riden some. They are a fine bunch of animals!
General 1: This past year attacks on our troops ect. in Manchuria by bandits have increased greatly.
General 3: Yes, it seems the Russians are paying their Mongoliian and Chinese Communist friends to carry out these attacks.
General 2: We need to launch punitive expeditions against them.
General 1: That's what the Russians want in the hope we will get into a war with China and will be unable to attack them.
General 3: Training with the navy to carry out a amphibious operation against at Magadan is going fairly well.
General 2: Yes, we need to get the Kolyma gold and other resources for the war.
General 1: Some of our newly raise divisions in Manchuria are having morale problems. Conditions for them are rather miserable and the Russians are conducting a propaganda campaign to demoralize our men.
General 2: What these soldiers need is more discipline . This will cure the morale problems. It will strengthen the Japanese Sprit. When war comes we will rout those Russian clods.
General 1: That is if we ever had a war.

James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: Speculative What-if fight: Poland v. Soviet Union 1937

Post by James A Pratt III » 14 Apr 2023 18:40

In the Spring of 1940 the Soviets launched two offensives to try and expand the Warsaw salient. Both failed with heavy Soviet casualties in return for slight gains.

At the front desertions and defections by Soviet troops to the Axis were very heavy during the winter. In part do to Axis propaganda drawn up by the Russian Liberation Committee. Some told their captors they were fed better as POWs than they were in the RKKA. Some of them volunteered for the Russian Liberation Army. Also during this period The Ukrainian Liberation Front was formed promising a independent Ukrainian state. Soon after it started forming it own army. This enraged many in the Russian Liberation Committee. The main supporters of the Ukrainians were the Italians and to a lesser degree the Rumaniians and Poles.

James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: Speculative What-if fight: Poland v. Soviet Union 1937

Post by James A Pratt III » 17 Apr 2023 19:36

Adding to the Soviets problems in the Spring of 1940 insurgencies broke out among Caucasus and Central Asian Moslems. They weren't very large at first but, the NKVD and Red Army did not have the manpower to deal with them. Shortly afterwards they contacted the Axis and during the summer started getting a little aid from them. Later that spring a peasant uprising broke out in Siberia. Which again the Soviets did not have them manpower to deal with. All these insurgencies remained small at first.

James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 856
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: Speculative What-if fight: Poland v. Soviet Union 1937

Post by James A Pratt III » 31 May 2023 20:13

The Soviets concentrated the bulk of their remaining tank corps north of the Pripet marshes in preperation for a major offensive that was to expand the Warsaw bulge and hopefully turn the war around. This left the Soviet forces south of the Pripet short of tanks. The offensive kept getting delayed do to a mixture of supply problems made worst by German air attacks. However in late May the Axis forces launched a major offensive in Rumania. Spearheaded by the 5th Panzer Group with the Rumanian armored corps to the East and the Italian 1st Army which included 4 armored and 4 motorized divisions to the west. The Axis forces broke through and drove north to Jassy. Then the Germans and Italians turned west and encircled the Soviet forces in the Carpthians. Meanwhile the Rumainians broke off during this advance turned East where they reached the Black Sea cutting off the Soviet forces along the coast. Both pockets were destroyed with some Soviet forces along the coast being evacuated by the Soviet Black Sea fleet.
Meanwhile in Southern Poland there were breakthroughs by the 1st and 4th panzer groups which which encircled a large number of Soviet troops. The Soviets started sending reserves to plug up the holes in their lines and even mounted a counter attack south from Kovel which made slight gains.
Meanwhile the Soviets a few weeks after the Axis offensive in the South began launched their planned major offensive to expand the Warsaw bulge after some gains and heavy casulties the offensive was called off and many of the Soviet armies tank corps and other reserve units were sent south to plug up the line. Sadly, it took some time for them to get there do to the poor state of the Soviet rail system and Axis air raids on it.
After the 2 southern and Northern pockets were destroyed the Panzer groups continued there advance the 5th driving north while the 1st and 4th drove soth-east. The units met up and the Soviet forces who had been ordered by Stalin to retreat were mostly encircled and destroyed. However 30,000+ Soviet troops managed to get themselves interned in Czechoslavkia. After this pocket was destroyed the Axis forces resumed their advance East and were stopped by Soviet reserves and supply problems on the line Pripet Marshes-west of Zhitimor- East of Vinnitsa and Dniestr river.
This was a major defeat for the Soviet forces their entire Southern wing was destroyed. Stalin fired and later had shot the front commanders.

Return to “What if”