Battle of Britain

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
Polynikes
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Re: Battle of Britain

Post by Polynikes » 29 Jan 2018 21:36

sitalkes wrote:the chiefs of staff did discuss the speedboat option in July 1940 and decided it could not be stopped - but it's not a practical suggestion

Because they'd need a port to disembark the few soldiers carried on board.

Leros87
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Location: Kent

Re: Battle of Britain

Post by Leros87 » 30 Jan 2018 12:00

sitalkes wrote:the chiefs of staff did discuss the speedboat option in July 1940 and decided it could not be stopped - but it's not a practical suggestion
According to Peter Schenk the Germans planned a diversionary operation using the bulk of 4 Company, I Bn, Brandenburg Regt, carried in 25 speedboats. Their role would have been to raid Dover harbour and its coastal batteries. It would seem that no one looked forward to being a part of this.

Knouterer
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Re: Battle of Britain

Post by Knouterer » 10 May 2018 08:36

The possibility of an attack on Dover harbour by fast motor boats carrying commando units (the Brandenburger Regiment) is sometimes mentioned, and the Germans seem to have considered it, but it would seem that any such attack would have been suicidal considering the defences of Dover. The three twin 6pdrs alone – the latest addition to the Coast Artillery arsenal – could spit out 36 rounds per minute per barrel, or even more according to some sources, and would have reduced any attacking motor boats to matchsticks, as they did during an Italian attempt against Malta in 1941. There were AA machine guns on the breakwater as well (possibly also naval Pom-Poms?), and behind that there were 16 pillboxes along the waterfront (mostly manned by Home Guard and naval personnel). In any case, there would be no point in taking the harbour as long as the surrounding heights were not cleared of British troops, and the army garrison of Dover was about 8,000 strong by September, admittedly not first-class troops.
In that context, the commander of the 6in gun battery on the Eastern Arm, B.E. Arnold, in his memoirs of the war (Conflict across the Straits) relates that a friendly destroyer captain handed him nine Brens and one Boys AT rifle (with 17 rounds …) recovered from the Dunkirk beaches, and that he managed to hang on to these unauthorized weapons for quite a while, because his superiors when visiting the battery pretended not to see them.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Harry Bold1
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Joined: 01 Mar 2019 16:18
Location: Germany

Re: SEELÖWE, the landing on 21st of July 1940

Post by Harry Bold1 » 01 Mar 2019 16:36

There is an english version by now: Sealion ascending, as E Book and as paperback: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NK7DMTZ
AlthistXX wrote:
15 Jan 2017 17:42
Hi, just read an alternative history novel, Seelöwe, the landing in England on the 21st of July 1940. Lots of senseful information on the planning and surprise landing in July which is primarily an Luftwaffe op.
There is an Ebook at: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01N7LIVT9 and also a paperback version.
Reminds me a bit of Tom Clancys Red Storm Rising, comparable style.
I think it falls a bit short,regarding the logistical situation of the Luftwaffe in June and July in France. Would it really have been possible for the Wehrmacht to do this stunt?
What do you think?
Regretfully only in german language, though I hope an english version will follow.

Knouterer
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Re: Battle of Britain

Post by Knouterer » 01 Mar 2019 20:57

Hitler gave the order to start preparing for an invasion of Britain on the 16th of July. On that same day, army engineers tested the first prototype of a landing craft on the Bodensee lake.
In other words, the idea that the Germans could have launched a full-scale invasion five days later is completely unrealistic. The Luftwaffe needed time to repair and overhaul planes, and to improvise new airfields on the Channel coast. In particular, the airborne forces had lost many aircraft and men in Holland and needed to be rebuilt.
The Channel ports from which the invasion would have to be launched were a shambles. For example, the newly appointed port commander of Dunkirk counted no fewer than 177 wrecks in and immediately in front of the harbour. Many could be left in place but others had to be raised or demolished in place before anything could be done with the port. Mines had to be swept, locks between the inner and outer harbour had to be repaired, etc. etc.
Even if we assume that the Germans could have sent over ten or twenty thousand men - without artillery or AFVs - in motor boats, fishing vessels and various other floating objects, and that the Royal Navy would somehow have missed them, local defenders would have had little trouble containing and defeating them. If necessary with the help of a few battalions of Foot Guards bused in from London.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Paul Lakowski
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Location: Canada

Re: Battle of Britain

Post by Paul Lakowski » 02 Mar 2019 00:09

As was reported years ago, Admiralty fear a NORWAY style port to port invasion , that could land 100,000 to 200,000 troops with out much warning or ability for RN to prevent. Only thing every one agreed on was they could not count on reliable resupply. Mind you if the political situation in the UK was as terrible as THE DARKEST HOUR presents , then "Stannis Baratheon" could very well have caved in the British side in the midst of such an assault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stannis_Baratheon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkest_Hour_(film)

AriX
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Joined: 29 Jun 2015 08:07
Location: Ukraine

Re: Battle of Britain

Post by AriX » 03 Mar 2019 12:37

If germans taked "Kanalkampf" as their primary strategy , how it woukd affect the outcome of BoB?

Aber
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Re: Battle of Britain

Post by Aber » 15 Mar 2019 09:08

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-47577930
An unexploded World War Two bomb has been found on a disused airfield planned to be used as a lorry park in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
The bomb was found earlier at Manston Airport, Kent, and police and army bomb disposal experts were called in.
I have seen claims that this is actually the British pipe bomb for airfield demolition - more news should follow later

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